Experimental Design B/C

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OrigamiPlanet
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby OrigamiPlanet » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:44 am

WhatScience? wrote:
Froggie wrote:
depo1213 wrote:Is there’s a specific topic for this event?

(of course, it has to be resonable).


What....I wanted to make Division B design an experiment that would give someone (me) the powers of the flash. Particle accelerators, dark matter, everything. Way to go froggie, completely ruining my dreams. :) :) :)

That experiment does seem a tad bit pricey. Maybe by a few billion bucks too much, especially dark matter? But then again, it's a small price for science.
All jokes aside, like what most others say, topics are generally physics or basic chemistry related, and they can be anything of the matter. Could be from parachutes to dropping water on coins, as I've seen and done both in a previous regional and state competition in Pennsylvania.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Panda Weasley » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:32 am

My partners and I are planning on doing an experiment outside of practice each week which led me to figuring out how we would get them graded. I was wondering if yall just rely on your knowledge of the rubric, or if you get someone else on the team to grade your tests?
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby OrigamiPlanet » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:16 pm

Panda Weasley wrote:My partners and I are planning on doing an experiment outside of practice each week which led me to figuring out how we would get them graded. I was wondering if yall just rely on your knowledge of the rubric, or if you get someone else on the team to grade your tests?


I mean everyone grades differently, but if you wish, I can help grade some parts, but I don't think I can do all. I can do F (Procedure), K (Analysis of Results), L (Errors), M (Conclusion), as I have been doing them for two years.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Panda Weasley » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:57 pm

OrigamiPlanet wrote:
Panda Weasley wrote:My partners and I are planning on doing an experiment outside of practice each week which led me to figuring out how we would get them graded. I was wondering if yall just rely on your knowledge of the rubric, or if you get someone else on the team to grade your tests?


I mean everyone grades differently, but if you wish, I can help grade some parts, but I don't think I can do all. I can do F (Procedure), K (Analysis of Results), L (Errors), M (Conclusion), as I have been doing them for two years.


That would be great, but I think it would be easiest to have someone from my team grade it. Thank you for offering though!
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby myscioly123 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:43 pm

Can anyone suggest a experiment with the following
1 buzzer
1 lemon
1 tomato
1 battery
1 penny
1 paper clip
1 ice bath
1 hot plate
1 thermometer

I strated coaching 6th graders and I am thinking what experiment we can make up with this.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby myscioly123 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:44 pm

I am coaching 6th graders and also looking for example experiement materials and solutions too. Any help will be greatly appreciated, as this is our first time doing scioly

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby SPP SciO » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:35 am

myscioly123 wrote:I am coaching 6th graders and also looking for example experiement materials and solutions too. Any help will be greatly appreciated, as this is our first time doing scioly


I would suggest starting by asking the question “what can we measure?” And given the materials, it seems like temperature is a natural choice. Once you’ve got a DV, how could you manipulate it? Don’t feel required to use all the materials. Anything where you’re testing variables and collecting data is a good place to start.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:51 am

myscioly123 wrote:I am coaching 6th graders and also looking for example experiement materials and solutions too. Any help will be greatly appreciated, as this is our first time doing scioly

Some example topics and materials are here.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby masterm » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:08 am

How do significant figures work when recording data? My partners and I are disagreeing about how we should report our data.
Should RAW data be recorded:
1) to the most precise value you can get (ex: a ruler to millimeters you record values of 17.03 cm, 9.87 cm, 21.45 cm)
2) to the same number of sig figs (17.0 cm, 9.87 cm, 21.5 cm)

Example: let’s say we are performing an experiment with a ruler and measure the following: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm.
-should this data be recorded in the raw data table to all have the same number of significant figures?
—> 0.5 has only one significant figure, so data would be recorded: 6 cm, 8cm, 10cm, 0.5cm
-OR would raw data be recorded exactly as measured:
—>5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm

-Also, how do significant figures work with a timer? We were not given any points for significant figures at an invitational last year and were wondering why.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:15 am

masterm wrote:How do significant figures work when recording data? My partners and I are disagreeing about how we should report our data.
Should RAW data be recorded:
1) to the most precise value you can get (ex: a ruler to millimeters you record values of 17.03 cm, 9.87 cm, 21.45 cm)
2) to the same number of sig figs (17.0 cm, 9.87 cm, 21.5 cm)

Example: let’s say we are performing an experiment with a ruler and measure the following: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm.
-should this data be recorded in the raw data table to all have the same number of significant figures?
—> 0.5 has only one significant figure, so data would be recorded: 6 cm, 8cm, 10cm, 0.5cm
-OR would raw data be recorded exactly as measured:
—>5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm

-Also, how do significant figures work with a timer? We were not given any points for significant figures at an invitational last year and were wondering why.

Ah, yes! My favorite portion!
When using significant figures, there is usually no specifics about significant figures. According to the soinc.org Experimental Design page,
soinc.org scoring rubric wrote:...
All data reported using correct figures (significant
figures C Division only)All data reported using correct figures (significant
figures C Division only) - 2 points
...

soinc.org explanation rubric wrote:...
Significant figures: the number of digits in a number that have meaning
...

significant figures are the digits with meaning. So if your answer was pi, 3.14 would probably be accepted, instead of 3.14159265358979323846.... I would say that the number of digits after the decimal point should be standardized, but that's just me. Raw data should be in significant figures, as per the rubric above.
As for the timer issue, I don't see why time can't be measured with significant figures. Lets say you are dropping a marble from different heights and timing how long it takes to hit the ground. Your timer most likely has a string of numbers trailing the decimal point, so depending on the IV levels, I would go to different significant figures. Because significant figures help distinguish the data, if (going back to the marble experiment) your IV levels were 1, 2 and 3 inches, there is so little time to drop that the results on average are less than a tenth of a second, so hundredths and thousandths really set the data apart. (And on the contrary, if it was an experiment with 1, 2, and 3 meters, it would be a whole other story.)
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby masterm » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:57 am

dxu46 wrote:significant figures are the digits with meaning. So if your answer was pi, 3.14 would probably be accepted, instead of 3.14159265358979323846.... I would say that the number of digits after the decimal point should be standardized, but that's just me. Raw data should be in significant figures, as per the rubric above.
As for the timer issue, I don't see why time can't be measured with significant figures. Lets say you are dropping a marble from different heights and timing how long it takes to hit the ground. Your timer most likely has a string of numbers trailing the decimal point, so depending on the IV levels, I would go to different significant figures. Because significant figures help distinguish the data, if (going back to the marble experiment) your IV levels were 1, 2 and 3 inches, there is so little time to drop that the results on average are less than a tenth of a second, so hundredths and thousandths really set the data apart. (And on the contrary, if it was an experiment with 1, 2, and 3 meters, it would be a whole other story.)


Thanks!

So in this example: let’s say we are performing an experiment with a ruler and measure the following: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm.
-should this data be recorded in the raw data table so all have the same number of significant figures?
--> option 1: record raw data exactly as measured (to most precise unit you can/to measured sig figs)
Record in table: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm
—> option 2: record raw data so all data have the same number of sig figs
0.5 has only one significant figure, so data would be recorded all to 1 sig fig:
Record in table: 6 cm, 8cm, 10cm, 0.5cm
*Which option is correct and should be written in the test?

Also regarding the timer, I'm asking because we reported all our data to the hundredths place (ex: 1.71 seconds) and did not receive any points for significant figures. This also goes back to my previous question - should all data be recorded so they have the same number of sig figs, or to the measured number of sig figs?

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:04 am

masterm wrote:
dxu46 wrote:significant figures are the digits with meaning. So if your answer was pi, 3.14 would probably be accepted, instead of 3.14159265358979323846.... I would say that the number of digits after the decimal point should be standardized, but that's just me. Raw data should be in significant figures, as per the rubric above.
As for the timer issue, I don't see why time can't be measured with significant figures. Lets say you are dropping a marble from different heights and timing how long it takes to hit the ground. Your timer most likely has a string of numbers trailing the decimal point, so depending on the IV levels, I would go to different significant figures. Because significant figures help distinguish the data, if (going back to the marble experiment) your IV levels were 1, 2 and 3 inches, there is so little time to drop that the results on average are less than a tenth of a second, so hundredths and thousandths really set the data apart. (And on the contrary, if it was an experiment with 1, 2, and 3 meters, it would be a whole other story.)


Thanks!

So in this example: let’s say we are performing an experiment with a ruler and measure the following: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm.
-should this data be recorded in the raw data table so all have the same number of significant figures?
--> option 1: record raw data exactly as measured (to most precise unit you can/to measured sig figs)
Record in table: 5.6 cm, 7.8 cm, 12.5 cm. 0.5 cm
—> option 2: record raw data so all data have the same number of sig figs
0.5 has only one significant figure, so data would be recorded all to 1 sig fig:
Record in table: 6 cm, 8cm, 10cm, 0.5cm
*Which option is correct and should be written in the test?

Also regarding the timer, I'm asking because we reported all our data to the hundredths place (ex: 1.71 seconds) and did not receive any points for significant figures. This also goes back to my previous question - should all data be recorded so they have the same number of sig figs, or to the measured number of sig figs?

I would say option 2, but only if you didn't round the values from option 1.
For the timer question, data should have the same number of significant figures.
Sorry I didn't get your questions in my last post!
Also, if you are division B you don't need sig figs... but I assume you are division c?
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby SPP SciO » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:19 pm

Here's my (non-expert) take on it:

-All measurements should be recorded to the precision of the instrument. On a typical ruler, this is the nearest mm, or 0.1 cm. A timer could measure to the nearest 0.001 second. Record what you measure, exactly.

-Significant figures come into play when you're doing calculations. So you can record distance to the nearest 0.1cm, and time to the nearest 0.001 second, but if you're going to be calculating speed, your speed should only be recorded to the nearest 0.1 cm/s.

-An easy rule of thumb (are there exceptions to this? I'm honestly not sure) is that the significant digits are the ones you would need, if you were to write the number in scientific notation.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby OrigamiPlanet » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:04 pm

SPP SciO wrote:Here's my (non-expert) take on it:

-All measurements should be recorded to the precision of the instrument. On a typical ruler, this is the nearest mm, or 0.1 cm. A timer could measure to the nearest 0.001 second. Record what you measure, exactly.

-Significant figures come into play when you're doing calculations. So you can record distance to the nearest 0.1cm, and time to the nearest 0.001 second, but if you're going to be calculating speed, your speed should only be recorded to the nearest 0.1 cm/s.

-An easy rule of thumb (are there exceptions to this? I'm honestly not sure) is that the significant digits are the ones you would need, if you were to write the number in scientific notation.


Adding on, don't round too often, because at that point, the number is no longer a significant figure. That's just an approximation of the significant figure, which would make the data considerably less accurate than it could have been.
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DP (6/3/2/5) RFTS (4/5/1/4) R&M (4/-/1/3) Exp. D. (-/4/1/2)
2018 (Rustin)
DP (-) Exp. D. (1) Meteorology (7) Solar System (2)

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby y1008083 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:12 pm

What formats do you just use?


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