Thermodynamics B/C

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » November 18th, 2017, 8:36 am

I am meeting with my partner tomorrow so is it okay if I submit it pretty late tomorrow night? Is their a deadline for official scores to be submitted? Also thanks so much for organizing this! :)
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » November 18th, 2017, 9:09 am

arv101 wrote:I am meeting with my partner tomorrow so is it okay if I submit it pretty late tomorrow night? Is their a deadline for official scores to be submitted? Also thanks so much for organizing this! :)


It's fine...I do need you to share your test to whatsciencescioly@gmail.com...it says I do not have access
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Thermodynamics, Potions and Poisons, Disease Detectives, Optics, and Towers

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » November 18th, 2017, 9:11 am

So the write to enter thing was just something to get people to write the test...to encourage everyone to try and send me their scores to have a better ranking, I will be posting all the tests...trying to figure out how to do it now.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » November 18th, 2017, 10:01 am

JoeyC wrote:Does anyone know if VIPs (Vacuum insulated plates) are any good? they cost a lot, but supposedly they match aerogel performance and
don't degrade due to water absorption (which allows for more consistent predictions). I would not use those for the main body (PURs w/ R- value of 10 instead), but I want to know if a vacuum plate would be worth it ( cause they're ~$40 a small panel),Thanks!

I think you mean a vacuum insulated panel, and I thought they were much more expensive than that.

I’m not sure if that degree of insulation is necessary, but I imagine it would work well.

Also, do you mean an R value per inch? I don’t think R-10 per inch is possible.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » November 18th, 2017, 2:51 pm

WhatScience? wrote:
arv101 wrote:I am meeting with my partner tomorrow so is it okay if I submit it pretty late tomorrow night? Is their a deadline for official scores to be submitted? Also thanks so much for organizing this! :)


It's fine...I do need you to share your test to whatsciencescioly@gmail.com...it says I do not have access



Oh I think it is because I did it on a school account so can I just copy and paste them into a dm and send it to you?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » November 19th, 2017, 8:55 am

I know WhatScience kind of already said this but I just realized we could generate a lot of questions. I feel like "trading" takes too much time so if we do the exact same thing (like the mock test) just with more people we get more questions. The person running it should also submit questions also. Also go to
http://sciolytestexchange.freeforums.net/ for more.
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby mnparhy » November 20th, 2017, 6:51 pm

chalker wrote:
retired1 wrote:Big problem : Time. For B it has a 5 min set up, a 30 min set or cool down time, 20 min for testing and typically there are 8 teams per period and it takes time to get the hot water to every time. That is very near the total time of each period. add in the ingress/egress of each set of teams and the supervisor has to review what is logged for each team.
Big problem!


Perhaps you aren't used to running this event in parallel? The typical way i recommend this event is as follows (let's assume 10 teams and 30 mins cooling time and a 50 minute time block):

0 - 5 mins: Get teams checked in, settled down
5 - 10 mins: 5 min device setup time
10 - 15 mins: in 30 second intervals, each team receives their hot water. I recommend the teams bring the beakers to the hot water source instead of the hot water being brought to the teams
15 - 20 mins: teams provide estimates, secure devices, etc
20 - 40 mins: cooling period, teams taking the test. Event supervisors go around room and insert thermometers into all the beakers
40 - 45 mins: in 30 second intervals, supervisor records temperatures for each team, teams can continue to take test if supervisor desires
45 - 50 mins: in 30 seconds intervals review results with teams / allow them to cleanup / leave

Obviously there are many variations possible, particularly the fact that most tournaments now use 60 min blocks, not 50 min blocks.

chalker wrote:
The recommendation I have is for the event supervisor to have enough thermometers to leave them in all the beakers (i.e. in the example I listed that would be 20 thermometers). Most school labs have tons of them sitting around so they aren't a big expense. That alleviates the time crunch regarding the 20 seconds wait period.


Nice suggestions, Chalker. Its easy to mess up the event. It will be great if a recommendation on how to run the event is posted in the sonic.org website as a guideline to event supervisors.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » November 20th, 2017, 7:13 pm

If the ES leaves the thermometers in, it will make it considerably harder for students to predict their scores because the thermometer will draw a significant amount of heat from the water. In my opinion, that should be avoided unless lack of time and/or volunteers necessitates it.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Pizzacats » November 21st, 2017, 8:04 am

Hello Thermodynamics people! :D
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » November 21st, 2017, 8:20 am

Pizzacats wrote:Hello Thermodynamics people! :D


Goodbye







jk
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby mnparhy » November 21st, 2017, 9:56 am

Rule states "At the start of the competition block, teams will be given 5 minutes to set up or modify their devices"
Any thoughts on why so much time is given for set up or what kind of modifications are possible based on the test conditions?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby appleshake123 » November 21st, 2017, 10:49 am

mnparhy wrote:Rule states "At the start of the competition block, teams will be given 5 minutes to set up or modify their devices"
Any thoughts on why so much time is given for set up or what kind of modifications are possible based on the test conditions?


Possibly, for modifications, devices out of spec(e.g. the device is 17 cm instead of 15 cm in length for C division) can cut down on the length without having to worry about the written test in that time frame.

It is also possible that the teams that fit the spec can obtain the water and begin the cooling period. They can devise a prediction without any person taking the paper test until this 5 minute period is over.

These are just my speculations. Don't take my word.
Last edited by appleshake123 on November 21st, 2017, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby vincentg903 » November 21st, 2017, 11:22 am

In the rules it states fiberglass insulation is not allowed. Is other forms of fiberglass permitted?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » November 25th, 2017, 2:37 pm

Hey guys...so I have been taking practice tests and have been thinking...how much of the test is actually going to be on what the rules say.(I know that in theory it is everything but in reality I doubt it will be that much). That is why I have been taking notes on everything thermo I can find since June but does anyone have a good list of topics to study?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby LittyWap » November 25th, 2017, 7:09 pm

WhatScience? wrote:Hey guys...so I have been taking practice tests and have been thinking...how much of the test is actually going to be on what the rules say.(I know that in theory it is everything but in reality I doubt it will be that much). That is why I have been taking notes on everything thermo I can find since June but does anyone have a good list of topics to study?



Basically, take a college level textbook, and go above that. To give you my Thermo Binder Documents would cause a ruckus among my team, but suffice it to say that I have been taking way too many notes. I have the Laws of Thermo, Gas Laws, the Carnot Cycle, a conversion table for every KMS, CGS, PFS and MTS units, the interactions between Le Chatlier's principle and Thermo, Thermo dynamic system, integral thermodynamic calculus, types of heat transfer, practical applications of thermodynamics, the real gas laws, thermodynamic history, and 100+ pages of Wikipedia. I find it to much more advantageous to have no social life and be prepared for any Thermo-philiac with 3 PhD's in the matter.

To give you a hint as to the detail I would go to, here is the Elliott-Suresh-Donohue EOS in expanded form:

(P*Vm)/(R*T) = 1 + 4c((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))*n/V )/1-1.9(((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))n/V) + Zm(1 + k3(c-1)) ((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))*n/V )(e^((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K ( (1.000 + 0.945(c-1) + 0.134(c-1)^2) / (1.023 + 2.225(c-1) + 0.478(c-1)^2) ))/ 1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K * T) – k2)/1+k1(((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))n/V)( e^(1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K ( (1.000 + 0.945(c-1) + 0.134(c-1)^2) / (1.023 + 2.225(c-1) + 0.478(c-1)^2) )/ 1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K * T) – k2)
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