Thermodynamics B/C

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WhatScience?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 am

LittyWap wrote:
WhatScience? wrote:Hey guys...so I have been taking practice tests and have been thinking...how much of the test is actually going to be on what the rules say.(I know that in theory it is everything but in reality I doubt it will be that much). That is why I have been taking notes on everything thermo I can find since June but does anyone have a good list of topics to study?



Basically, take a college level textbook, and go above that. To give you my Thermo Binder Documents would cause a ruckus among my team, but suffice it to say that I have been taking way too many notes. I have the Laws of Thermo, Gas Laws, the Carnot Cycle, a conversion table for every KMS, CGS, PFS and MTS units, the interactions between Le Chatlier's principle and Thermo, Thermo dynamic system, integral thermodynamic calculus, types of heat transfer, practical applications of thermodynamics, the real gas laws, thermodynamic history, and 100+ pages of Wikipedia. I find it to much more advantageous to have no social life and be prepared for any Thermo-philiac with 3 PhD's in the matter.

To give you a hint as to the detail I would go to, here is the Elliott-Suresh-Donohue EOS in expanded form:

(P*Vm)/(R*T) = 1 + 4c((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))*n/V )/1-1.9(((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))n/V) + Zm(1 + k3(c-1)) ((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))*n/V )(e^((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K ( (1.000 + 0.945(c-1) + 0.134(c-1)^2) / (1.023 + 2.225(c-1) + 0.478(c-1)^2) ))/ 1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K * T) – k2)/1+k1(((((1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K)Tc/Pc)* (0.0312 + 0.087(c-1) + 0.008 (c-1)^2) / (1.000 + 2.455(c-1) + 1.732(c-1)^2))n/V)( e^(1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K ( (1.000 + 0.945(c-1) + 0.134(c-1)^2) / (1.023 + 2.225(c-1) + 0.478(c-1)^2) )/ 1.3806485279 * 10 ^-23 J/K * T) – k2)


Oh..looks like I am adequately prepared then...

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:41 pm

Hey guys, so Pyrogel XT-E looks like a good- (Looks down, sees Elliot-Donahue-something EOS expanded equation :cry: )
- uhhh...
So anyways the Pyrogel XT-E seems like a good hydrophobic insulator that I can reuse in other situations http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/pyrogel-xt-e-blanket/ , but do you think it would be a good investment, or do you recommend something else?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby syo_astro » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:11 pm

LittyWap wrote:...integral thermodynamic calculus...I find it to much more advantageous to have no social life and be prepared for any Thermo-philiac with 3 PhD's in the matter.


Scioly tests should have NO calculus...not saying you can't learn it for fun, though! I know, you'll complain at me about that one test writer who put (copied?) a calc question or the fact that you can't really understand things without calc. Anticipating that, I'll say you can come up with a fairly good understanding and plenty of questions you won't expect without calculus (though, I don't think I'm expecting to write any thermo this year;) ).

Also, I now want to search for that one person with 3 PhDs relevant to thermo that somehow also writes scioly tests XD.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:39 pm

syo_astro wrote:
LittyWap wrote:...integral thermodynamic calculus...I find it to much more advantageous to have no social life and be prepared for any Thermo-philiac with 3 PhD's in the matter.


Scioly tests should have NO calculus...not saying you can't learn it for fun, though! I know, you'll complain at me about that one test writer who put (copied?) a calc question or the fact that you can't really understand things without calc. Anticipating that, I'll say you can come up with a fairly good understanding and plenty of questions you won't expect without calculus (though, I don't think I'm expecting to write any thermo this year;) ).

Also, I now want to search for that one person with 3 PhDs relevant to thermo that somehow also writes scioly tests XD.


If I ever find that person, I am totally forcing him to teach me the secrets of thermo...lol
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby takuramen89 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:13 am

Hello I came here because I have a few questions
1). i see aerogels are a abig thing for thermo, but im confused because i see alot of pictures of them seeing them in a pebble like form but i also see picture of it being one sheet. How exactly do aerogels work?

2).in the rules it says the beaker has to be roughly ratio'ed at 1.4 times the diameter, ive been looking all around abd the closest ive seen is 1.2 , does anyone know where i can buy one with that ratio?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby LittyWap » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:19 am

takuramen89 wrote:Hello I came here because I have a few questions
1). i see aerogels are a abig thing for thermo, but im confused because i see alot of pictures of them seeing them in a pebble like form but i also see picture of it being one sheet. How exactly do aerogels work?

2).in the rules it says the beaker has to be roughly ratio'ed at 1.4 times the diameter, ive been looking all around abd the closest ive seen is 1.2 , does anyone know where i can buy one with that ratio?


I believe people far overestimate the advantages to aerogels. While getting a good heat retention score would be nice, I think it would be much better to focus on the test and prediction than heat retention. Poly-styrene or urethane foams should suffice, (in my opinion), up until the state and national level competition.

I doubt anyone will be such a stickler about the whole 1.4 thing. I don't see how having a 1.2 beaker would provide any advantage, if at all.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:10 am

takuramen89 wrote:Hello I came here because I have a few questions
1). i see aerogels are a abig thing for thermo, but im confused because i see alot of pictures of them seeing them in a pebble like form but i also see picture of it being one sheet. How exactly do aerogels work?

2).in the rules it says the beaker has to be roughly ratio'ed at 1.4 times the diameter, ive been looking all around abd the closest ive seen is 1.2 , does anyone know where i can buy one with that ratio?


Takuramen if you REALLY wish to buy aerogels you can find blanket type ones like Pyrogel here
http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/pyrogel-xt-e-blanket/
make sure they're hydrophobic (waterproof) or else it will catastrophically degrade. But a small been said by others, the test and prediction is more important to your score.
Edit: I have been informed by Alex RHC that many contain fiberglass so read the MDS closely
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby lamppost » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:28 am

Hello, I'm new to this event! Just wondering, for Divison B, the measurements listed for the insulator are 20.0 x 20.0 x 20.0 cm, can it be 19 x 19 x 19?
New to Science Olympiad in general. I like posting games! Likes KPop, loves EDM. Events: Disease Detectives, Thermodynamics, Crime Busters, and partially A&P and Road Scholar
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Froggie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:10 am

lamppost wrote:Hello, I'm new to this event! Just wondering, for Divison B, the measurements listed for the insulator are 20.0 x 20.0 x 20.0 cm, can it be 19 x 19 x 19?

I think so, rules state it should fit in a 20 x 20 x 20 box.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby WhatScience? » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:53 am

Froggie wrote:
lamppost wrote:Hello, I'm new to this event! Just wondering, for Divison B, the measurements listed for the insulator are 20.0 x 20.0 x 20.0 cm, can it be 19 x 19 x 19?

I think so, rules state it should fit in a 20 x 20 x 20 box.


This is correct...your dimensions can't exceed 20....anything lower is fine
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:55 am

I have a good understanding on the concepts of thermo now but how do I take it to the next level and get all the questions right. For example, I am now making like careless mistakes and keep missing random, different type questions. Also, where can I learn and practice the different types of possible problems (like math related)?
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby lamppost » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:25 pm

Link to the question marathon?
New to Science Olympiad in general. I like posting games! Likes KPop, loves EDM. Events: Disease Detectives, Thermodynamics, Crime Busters, and partially A&P and Road Scholar

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Froggie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:27 pm

lamppost wrote:Link to the question marathon?

viewtopic.php?f=266&t=10926
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby lamppost » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:01 pm

Do you guys think the Thermodynamics Kit is a good device (the cardboard one)?





do i ask too many questions? lol
New to Science Olympiad in general. I like posting games! Likes KPop, loves EDM. Events: Disease Detectives, Thermodynamics, Crime Busters, and partially A&P and Road Scholar

Placements for Regionals:
A&P: 12th
Thermo: 14th
Road Scholar: 9th
DD and Crime Busters: Not tested

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:29 am

One can never ask too many questions.
The thermodynamics kit is alright, but I'll tell you that anything made of cardboard will not stand a chance against properly constructed PUR foam (R-10 for the win!!!!)
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