Thermodynamics B/C

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Crtomir » Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:54 pm

JoeyC wrote:
takuramen89 wrote:Hello I came here because I have a few questions
1). i see aerogels are a abig thing for thermo, but im confused because i see alot of pictures of them seeing them in a pebble like form but i also see picture of it being one sheet. How exactly do aerogels work?

2).in the rules it says the beaker has to be roughly ratio'ed at 1.4 times the diameter, ive been looking all around abd the closest ive seen is 1.2 , does anyone know where i can buy one with that ratio?


Takuramen if you REALLY wish to buy aerogels you can find blanket type ones like Pyrogel here
http://www.buyaerogel.com/product/pyrogel-xt-e-blanket/
make sure they're hydrophobic (waterproof) or else it will catastrophically degrade. But a small been said by others, the test and prediction is more important to your score.
Edit: I have been informed by Alex RHC that many contain fiberglass so read the MDS closely



Yes, this aero-gel "blanket" does contain fiberglass, which is forbidden by the event rules. We did not purchase this product for this very reason.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Crtomir » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:00 pm

With all this talk about aero-gels, most of the ones that are cheap enough are aero-gel beads, not monolithic blocks of aero-gel. A 20x20 cm monolithic block of aero-gel is prohibitively expensive. Filling up a box with aero-gel beads leaves a lot of interstitial space between the beads that is filled with just air. I am wondering if, in the end, aero-gel beads actually work better than just a solid styrofoam block or if, because of the air gaps, the composite system becomes less insulative than just a simple solid styrofoam block? Has anyone taken any real data on this to PROVE that aero-gel beads packed in a box perform better than a solid block of styrofoam?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:29 am

Where can you find more practice problems to do? Also, where is the best place to learn how to do the actual problem problems, which involve math.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:11 pm

I tend to just find college level textbooks (like Schuam's outlines) and learn off of those.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby lamppost » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:22 pm

Anyone know a good place to get polyurethane foam? Can't really find any good places
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby LittyWap » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:19 pm

lamppost wrote:Anyone know a good place to get polyurethane foam? Can't really find any good places



SmoothOn makes a lot of pourable urethane foams. All you have to do is mix parts A and B and pour the solution into a mold of some kind. I made a mold around my beaker and made a very good insulating device in an hour's time.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tesel » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:18 pm

I see people talking about using aluminum foil or similar materials to trap heat radiation. Is that your outer layer, as in a lining for whatever you use as a box? Also, what solutions have you found to make a rigid layer around your beaker?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby retired1 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:46 pm

Personal opinion-- Silvered mylar would work a lot more efficiently. Think of coffee bags for stiffer material and some chip bags for thinner material.

For the foam question- Why not us a can of spray insulating foam from any big box store. A lot simpler to use and very probably cheaper..
If you want it to touch the beaker, spray the beaker with cooking spray or WD-40. The cooking spray is a lot easier to clean up.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:05 pm

LittyWap wrote:
lamppost wrote:Anyone know a good place to get polyurethane foam? Can't really find any good places



SmoothOn makes a lot of pourable urethane foams. All you have to do is mix parts A and B and pour the solution into a mold of some kind. I made a mold around my beaker and made a very good insulating device in an hour's time.

That sounds like urethane rubber rather than polyurethane foam. Can you provide a link?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby retired1 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:30 pm

It is polyurethane. Just one example is Great Stuff from home depot.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tesel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:35 am

retired1 wrote:Personal opinion-- Silvered mylar would work a lot more efficiently. Think of coffee bags for stiffer material and some chip bags for thinner material.

For the foam question- Why not us a can of spray insulating foam from any big box store. A lot simpler to use and very probably cheaper..
If you want it to touch the beaker, spray the beaker with cooking spray or WD-40. The cooking spray is a lot easier to clean up.


Yep, agreed on both counts. I did some looking for polyurethane foam at home, where not everything is blocked on the wifi. I'll probably pick some up at Home Depot and have it ready for this Saturday.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tesel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:20 am

Unless there are any huge flaws in my plan, here's my design for my competition this Saturday:
- Foam core box for stability
- Reflective mylar lining for heat radiation
- Polyurethane spray for heat convection
- Plastic beakers

From my limited understanding, it should be fine but not spectacular. If it works, I'll post a couple pictures. I got all my info and ideas from this thread, so I don't have any problem sharing the results of those ideas. Cheers!
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:26 am

Tesel wrote:Unless there are any huge flaws in my plan, here's my design for my competition this Saturday:
- Foam core box for stability
- Reflective mylar lining for heat radiation
- Polyurethane spray for heat convection
- Plastic beakers

From my limited understanding, it should be fine but not spectacular. If it works, I'll post a couple pictures. I got all my info and ideas from this thread, so I don't have any problem sharing the results of those ideas. Cheers!

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck!

What type of plastic are your beakers made of?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tesel » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:39 am

Alex-RCHS wrote:
Tesel wrote:Unless there are any huge flaws in my plan, here's my design for my competition this Saturday:
- Foam core box for stability
- Reflective mylar lining for heat radiation
- Polyurethane spray for heat convection
- Plastic beakers

From my limited understanding, it should be fine but not spectacular. If it works, I'll post a couple pictures. I got all my info and ideas from this thread, so I don't have any problem sharing the results of those ideas. Cheers!

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck!

What type of plastic are your beakers made of?


I believe they're polystyrene, but I'm having trouble finding the link to confirm.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:53 pm

Tesel wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:
Tesel wrote:Unless there are any huge flaws in my plan, here's my design for my competition this Saturday:
- Foam core box for stability
- Reflective mylar lining for heat radiation
- Polyurethane spray for heat convection
- Plastic beakers

From my limited understanding, it should be fine but not spectacular. If it works, I'll post a couple pictures. I got all my info and ideas from this thread, so I don't have any problem sharing the results of those ideas. Cheers!

Sounds like a good plan to me. Good luck!

What type of plastic are your beakers made of?


I believe they're polystyrene, but I'm having trouble finding the link to confirm.

Interesting. I wasn’t able to find any polystyrene beakers.
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