Thermodynamics B/C

arv101
Member
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:12 am
Division: B
State: NJ
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:32 pm

connerywood18 wrote:One thing I have noticed in past tournaments is that several teams are allowed to leave their thermometers inside their device during the testing time. So I have a few questions:

1. Is this allowed? By the rule that states that the hole must remain unobstructed during testing time, I don't think so.

2. On the unlikely possibility it is allowed, is it a good idea?

3. If it is not allowed, should I stop people from doing it (is it a good idea) and if so how?

Thanks!

Honestly, at no competition have I seen this event run correctly. Which isn't entirely the supervisors fault because this event is quite hard to run. At my most recent competition the es let us write the temperatures down ourselves with pencil. Now the rules say that you are allowed to use your own thermometer to measure the starting temperature. I am pretty sure you are not supposed to leave the thermometer in but in any case you should have already written your prediction down and handed it to the es.

Let me know if that sounded confusing.
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

"You may have graduated, but I have many degrees"

User avatar
JoeyC
Member
Member
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 pm
Division: C
State: TX
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby JoeyC » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:38 pm

arv101 wrote:
connerywood18 wrote:One thing I have noticed in past tournaments is that several teams are allowed to leave their thermometers inside their device during the testing time. So I have a few questions:

1. Is this allowed? By the rule that states that the hole must remain unobstructed during testing time, I don't think so.

2. On the unlikely possibility it is allowed, is it a good idea?

3. If it is not allowed, should I stop people from doing it (is it a good idea) and if so how?

Thanks!

Honestly, at no competition have I seen this event run correctly. Which isn't entirely the supervisors fault because this event is quite hard to run. At my most recent competition the es let us write the temperatures down ourselves with pencil. Now the rules say that you are allowed to use your own thermometer to measure the starting temperature. I am pretty sure you are not supposed to leave the thermometer in but in any case you should have already written your prediction down and handed it to the es.

Let me know if that sounded confusing.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh my gosh, that's just ridiculous, but so true.
And in response to that question, I've always left mine in, and it's been allowed. Plus believe that leaving the thermometer in is beneficial if you're the water is at a relatively low temperature as it blocks the steam from leaving (partially), while leaving it in at high temperatures could be detrimental due to the thermometer conducting away the heat, and giving the water a larger surface area to vent heat from. Please correct me if I'm wrong; I don't believe I'm proficient as some people that roam the vast (and mostly abandoned) plains of the scioly forums.
Does anyone know an efficient way to lower the temperature of water to around 0 C, so as to effectively run tests to determine how a thermodynamic device functions under ice water bonus?
Ohayo!
Past (Main) Events
Dynamic Planet Fast Facts, Thermodynamics, Green Generation

Current Events
Dynamic Planet Protein Modeling, Thermodynamics, More to (hopefully) come!

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3506
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Unome » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:42 pm

JoeyC wrote:Does anyone know an efficient way to lower the temperature of water to around 0 C, so as to effectively run tests to determine how a thermodynamic device functions under ice water bonus?

There's a reason it's called the Ice Water Bonus. Well-mixed water with sufficient ice in it is theoretically exactly 0 C.
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

User avatar
Justin72835
Member
Member
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:06 pm
Division: C
State: TX
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Justin72835 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:19 am

arv101 wrote:
connerywood18 wrote:One thing I have noticed in past tournaments is that several teams are allowed to leave their thermometers inside their device during the testing time. So I have a few questions:

1. Is this allowed? By the rule that states that the hole must remain unobstructed during testing time, I don't think so.

2. On the unlikely possibility it is allowed, is it a good idea?

3. If it is not allowed, should I stop people from doing it (is it a good idea) and if so how?

Thanks!

Honestly, at no competition have I seen this event run correctly. Which isn't entirely the supervisors' fault because this event is quite hard to run.

Relatable. One recurring issue I see is that supervisors are not able to consistently heat the water to the correct (stated) temperatures. While they are trying their best, it's kind of sketchy when you get your water and it's anywhere from 10 to 20 degrees lower than the temperature they initially stated. :|
"...the future is waiting. Give it everything, and make it yours."

2017-2018: MIT/R/S/N
Experimental Design: 7/4/10/19
Hovercraft: 2/1/6/4
Remote Sensing: 6/4/4/1
Thermodynamics: 10/2/15/12

Seven Lakes High School '19

User avatar
Ashernoel
Member
Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:31 pm
Division: C
State: IL
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Ashernoel » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:38 am

At solon, Mason ran the event with large syringes to get the perfect volume of 75 ml (iirc) which is a pretty great idea. The test was the best test I've taken to date, in my opinion, especially considering we had 35 minutes to complete it (albeit I did not attend MIT this year).
NT 2019

User avatar
appleshake123
Member
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:53 am
Division: Grad
State: PA
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby appleshake123 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:42 pm

I also really loved how they used syringes. The water could be poured directly into the beaker without spilling, lost of heat is lessened etc. The test was really good esp with the time limit of your water testing. Overall that was really well ran
Bayard Rustin Class of 2018
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Class of 2022
Favorite Events
Shock Value
It's About Time
Geologic Mapping
Dynamic Planet
Fermi
Hydrogeology

arv101
Member
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:12 am
Division: B
State: NJ
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby arv101 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:08 pm

Ashernoel wrote:At solon, Mason ran the event with large syringes to get the perfect volume of 75 ml (iirc) which is a pretty great idea. The test was the best test I've taken to date, in my opinion, especially considering we had 35 minutes to complete it (albeit I did not attend MIT this year).

Are you allowed to trade the Solon test? "The test was the best test I've taken to date," I am intrigued.
What did the thermometer say to the graduated cylinder?

"You may have graduated, but I have many degrees"

User avatar
Ashernoel
Member
Member
Posts: 328
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:31 pm
Division: C
State: IL
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Ashernoel » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:36 pm

arv101 wrote:
Ashernoel wrote:At solon, Mason ran the event with large syringes to get the perfect volume of 75 ml (iirc) which is a pretty great idea. The test was the best test I've taken to date, in my opinion, especially considering we had 35 minutes to complete it (albeit I did not attend MIT this year).

Are you allowed to trade the Solon test? "The test was the best test I've taken to date," I am intrigued.


Haha it was only the third test Thermodynamics* test I had taken (at competition), but I thought it had a fair representation of the concepts on the rules and had a nice balance between easy, medium, and hard problems. It was the first test where we had to get through it before our water was done cooling, which pressured us for time and made things even more fun as we tested our guessing skills on the last few problems.

Personally, I do not support trading, but you may be able to talk to someone from one of the other 65 schools that took the test.
NT 2019

Billbillsmiths
Member
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:20 pm
State: OH
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Billbillsmiths » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:36 pm

Get the “aerogel thermal warp” from buyaerogel.com
they are great no glass . Can make a great device from it

User avatar
Alex-RCHS
Member
Member
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:46 pm
Division: C
State: NC
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:36 pm

Billbillsmiths wrote:Get the “aerogel thermal warp” from buyaerogel.com
they are great no glass . Can make a great device from it

My first thought was it would have fiberglass in it but I can’t tell from the MSDS if it does.
About me!
Raleigh Charter HS (NC) 2018
UNC-Chapel Hill 2022

User avatar
Tailsfan101
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:33 pm
Division: B
State: ID
Location: Waiting for next season
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tailsfan101 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:54 pm

Alex-RCHS wrote:
Billbillsmiths wrote:Get the “aerogel thermal warp” from buyaerogel.com
they are great no glass . Can make a great device from it

My first thought was it would have fiberglass in it but I can’t tell from the MSDS if it does.

Can I tell you something?
Image
2018 Treasure Valley Homeschool Wiki (Division B)
2018
State/Nats
Crime: 1/35
Road: 1/44
DD: 2/37
MM: 3/46

2017
State/Nats
DD: 1/16
DP: -/50
Road: 2/51
FF: 4/59

Hopeful 2019 events: Road Scholar, Crime Busters, Disease Detectives, Heredity
Assassinator for game #118

User avatar
Alex-RCHS
Member
Member
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:46 pm
Division: C
State: NC
Location: Raleigh, NC
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Alex-RCHS » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:03 am

Tailsfan101 wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:
Billbillsmiths wrote:Get the “aerogel thermal warp” from buyaerogel.com
they are great no glass . Can make a great device from it

My first thought was it would have fiberglass in it but I can’t tell from the MSDS if it does.

Can I tell you something?
Image

That’s what I thought too but “can make a great device from it” seemed legit. Anyway, I seriously am surprised by the MSDS, because nearly all aerogel blankets have fiberglass or rock wool, but I couldn’t find it on that one.
About me!
Raleigh Charter HS (NC) 2018
UNC-Chapel Hill 2022

User avatar
Tailsfan101
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:33 pm
Division: B
State: ID
Location: Waiting for next season
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Tailsfan101 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:06 am

Alex-RCHS wrote:
Tailsfan101 wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:My first thought was it would have fiberglass in it but I can’t tell from the MSDS if it does.

Can I tell you something?
Image

That’s what I thought too but “can make a great device from it” seemed legit. Anyway, I seriously am surprised by the MSDS, because nearly all aerogel blankets have fiberglass or rock wool, but I couldn’t find it on that one.

Spam hints:
1. It's their only post.
2. Capitalization, punctuation, and grammar are incorrect.
3. It includes a link.
2018 Treasure Valley Homeschool Wiki (Division B)
2018
State/Nats
Crime: 1/35
Road: 1/44
DD: 2/37
MM: 3/46

2017
State/Nats
DD: 1/16
DP: -/50
Road: 2/51
FF: 4/59

Hopeful 2019 events: Road Scholar, Crime Busters, Disease Detectives, Heredity
Assassinator for game #118

Bobbycat
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:23 am
State: -
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Bobbycat » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:55 am

After reading the rules I'm assuming that having the hole with a sliced opening over it is not allowed. It could be opened by pushing the thermometer through. I ask because rule 3 E states that the device must also easily, accommodate the insertion and removal of a thermometer probe into the beaker via a hole. I can easily insert and remove a 1.5 centimeter centimeter in diameter thermometer in my device even though it's partially occluded when there's no thermometer in place however the last sentence of the this particular subsection of the rule states the whole must remain open and unobstructed during the competition I'm assuming then that you couldn't partially occluded with some light material that would still allow the thermometer be inserted through it. Has anyone received any clarification on this issue.

Bobbycat
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:23 am
State: -
Contact:

Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Postby Bobbycat » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:33 am

mkroy128 wrote:Ice Water Bonus (IWB) = (volume of ice water in ml /10) points
Teams may elect to add up to 50 mL of water from an ice bath to their internal beaker immediately after
receiving the hot water for bonus points. Each team may choose their own volume.

Do any of you know how to effectively use ice water in this event to your advantage? Is 5 points extra really worth the ice water, along with more careful predictions of the final insulator beaker? Or is it useless?



When I run my tests and use ice water my score is lower then without because my device has a HRF of 1.75.


Return to “2018 Lab Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests