MIT Invitational 2018

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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby pikachu4919 » January 22nd, 2018, 9:52 pm

While it's great that they are trying to protect the security of the exams, teams with upcoming competitions are now left wasting valuable days of preparation time without the exams to look through. There has to be a better way to deal with exam distribution. If they knew that this was the method for distribution, then the exams should have been prepared in advance for timely distribution. Will definitely reconsider attending next year because the exam distribution is ALWAYS a problem.
This point has been brought up a lot all over the forums, and honestly, I think a better solution is to use those “valuable days of preparation time” to continue to study other resources on the internet (there are plenty out there, and it’s very likely that there are event supervisors that sourced quite a bit of the content they used on their exams through searching on the internet) rather than to spend them just waiting for the tests to come back. The tests will come, and since they aren’t the only resources available to you right now, you might as well try to get some actual studying done while you wait.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Wallytowers » January 22nd, 2018, 10:00 pm

While it's great that they are trying to protect the security of the exams, teams with upcoming competitions are now left wasting valuable days of preparation time without the exams to look through. There has to be a better way to deal with exam distribution. If they knew that this was the method for distribution, then the exams should have been prepared in advance for timely distribution. Will definitely reconsider attending next year because the exam distribution is ALWAYS a problem.
This point has been brought up a lot all over the forums, and honestly, I think a better solution is to use those “valuable days of preparation time” to continue to study other resources on the internet (there are plenty out there, and it’s very likely that there are event supervisors that sourced quite a bit of the content they used on their exams through searching on the internet) rather than to spend them just waiting for the tests to come back. The tests will come, and since they aren’t the only resources available to you right now, you might as well try to get some actual studying done while you wait.
As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.

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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » January 22nd, 2018, 10:06 pm

While it's great that they are trying to protect the security of the exams, teams with upcoming competitions are now left wasting valuable days of preparation time without the exams to look through. There has to be a better way to deal with exam distribution. If they knew that this was the method for distribution, then the exams should have been prepared in advance for timely distribution. Will definitely reconsider attending next year because the exam distribution is ALWAYS a problem.
This point has been brought up a lot all over the forums, and honestly, I think a better solution is to use those “valuable days of preparation time” to continue to study other resources on the internet (there are plenty out there, and it’s very likely that there are event supervisors that sourced quite a bit of the content they used on their exams through searching on the internet) rather than to spend them just waiting for the tests to come back. The tests will come, and since they aren’t the only resources available to you right now, you might as well try to get some actual studying done while you wait.
As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
I have a couple reactions to this. 1) I think this is another good argument for having immediate public publishing of all tests, as it would decrease the need for transferral of files as the files would be available online regardless. 2) I would argue that the majority of the service that is being provided is the experience of the tournament itself, and the acquisition of resources after the completion of the tournament are more of a secondary benefit. Thus, I'm not sure that the inclusion of the "thousand of dollars" is necessarily the best argument for encouraging quick transferral of test files. Of these two thoughts, though, I definitely feel stronger about the first, as the second is a little more nitpicky and deals with more how the points were presented.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby pikachu4919 » January 22nd, 2018, 10:08 pm

While it's great that they are trying to protect the security of the exams, teams with upcoming competitions are now left wasting valuable days of preparation time without the exams to look through. There has to be a better way to deal with exam distribution. If they knew that this was the method for distribution, then the exams should have been prepared in advance for timely distribution. Will definitely reconsider attending next year because the exam distribution is ALWAYS a problem.

This point has been brought up a lot all over the forums, and honestly, I think a better solution is to use those “valuable days of preparation time” to continue to study other resources on the internet (there are plenty out there, and it’s very likely that there are event supervisors that sourced quite a bit of the content they used on their exams through searching on the internet) rather than to spend them just waiting for the tests to come back. The tests will come, and since they aren’t the only resources available to you right now, you might as well try to get some actual studying done while you wait.
As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
Wow, if you really receive tests back that quickly, that’s insanely fast. In my day, there were competitions I attended that never ended up giving us blank electronic copies of the full set of tests at all. So be grateful if tournaments really give you that kind of luxury service and don’t be so nitpicky towards those who don’t. Not everyone can get all that stuff together THAT quickly, and I assure you they’re doing their best to get the tests back to you as soon as possible. And my main point is that in the meantime, just chill, and a good use of time would be to study other resources that are right in front of you, such as the internet, while you wait for the tests to come back.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby nicholasmaurer » January 22nd, 2018, 10:15 pm


As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
In my experience, tournaments typically take between 2-7 days to release the full set of tests to participating teams. I am responsible for this effort at the Solon Invitational, and it is a larger task than you would imagine, even without customized watermarks.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Wallytowers » January 22nd, 2018, 10:15 pm


This point has been brought up a lot all over the forums, and honestly, I think a better solution is to use those “valuable days of preparation time” to continue to study other resources on the internet (there are plenty out there, and it’s very likely that there are event supervisors that sourced quite a bit of the content they used on their exams through searching on the internet) rather than to spend them just waiting for the tests to come back. The tests will come, and since they aren’t the only resources available to you right now, you might as well try to get some actual studying done while you wait.
As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
I have a couple reactions to this. 1) I think this is another good argument for having immediate public publishing of all tests, as it would decrease the need for transferral of files as the files would be available online regardless. 2) I would argue that the majority of the service that is being provided is the experience of the tournament itself, and the acquisition of resources after the completion of the tournament are more of a secondary benefit. Thus, I'm not sure that the inclusion of the "thousand of dollars" is necessarily the best argument for encouraging quick transferral of test files. Of these two thoughts, though, I definitely feel stronger about the first, as the second is a little more nitpicky and deals with more how the points were presented.
The level of frustration is always high this time of year, and at 1am, the lines if reasoning are haphazard. For larger universities, perhaps I could see the release of exams not hurting them from getting the attendance for the experience. Smaller invitationals may go to the wayside, however, as they may not get the draw of teams for the price tags included for bussing. It's easier to justify to parents the cost of an MIT vs the cost of a high school invy in a neighboring state. If these exams were released, the experience may not necessarily be deemed worthwhile for the middle of the road school.

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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Wallytowers » January 22nd, 2018, 10:18 pm


As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
In my experience, tournaments typically take between 2-7 days to release the full set of tests to participating teams. I am responsible for this effort at the Solon Invitational, and it is a larger task than you would imagine, even without customized watermarks.
We must be spoiled in the northeast. All of the tournaments we go to have a much quicker turnaround. When we supervise, we usually have to submit digitally in advance or on flash drives at morning registration to facilitate the turnover.

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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby nicholasmaurer » January 22nd, 2018, 10:21 pm


As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
In my experience, tournaments typically take between 2-7 days to release the full set of tests to participating teams. I am responsible for this effort at the Solon Invitational, and it is a larger task than you would imagine, even without customized watermarks.
We must be spoiled in the northeast. All of the tournaments we go to have a much quicker turnaround. When we supervise, we usually have to submit digitally in advance or on flash drives at morning registration to facilitate the turnover.
We also ask for digital submission in advance, but there are frequently last minute changes, mistakes identified during the tournament, or supervisors who do not submit all of the needed documents. Given all of the other duties a host school has on the day of the tournament (and afterwards with cleanup etc.) it can take a few days for all of these details to be ironed out.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby pikachu4919 » January 22nd, 2018, 10:23 pm


In my experience, tournaments typically take between 2-7 days to release the full set of tests to participating teams. I am responsible for this effort at the Solon Invitational, and it is a larger task than you would imagine, even without customized watermarks.
We must be spoiled in the northeast. All of the tournaments we go to have a much quicker turnaround. When we supervise, we usually have to submit digitally in advance or on flash drives at morning registration to facilitate the turnover.
We also ask for digital submission in advance, but there are frequently last minute changes, mistakes identified during the tournament, or supervisors who do not submit all of the needed documents. Given all of the other duties a host school has on the day of the tournament (and afterwards with cleanup etc.) it can take a few days for all of these details to be ironed out.
Y’all got your team packets at the end of the tournament containing your teams’ tests. Some of those tests do have the questions on them, and you can put some of the topics from those into google and read up on them while you wait as well.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Unome » January 23rd, 2018, 5:26 am

As a coach that has just had the students/parents pay collectively thousands of dollars to attend, that really is not acceptable in my opinion. It may differ from the MIT board, but you are providing a service to the students and schools in attendance. All other invitationals, you leave with a flash drive or receive the Drive/Dropbox files within 24 hours.

My students have been looking through plenty of resources, but they always look forward to the MIT exams for the final push through regionals. They appreciate the rigor and are huge studying tools for their preparation.
Wow, if you really receive tests back that quickly, that’s insanely fast. In my day, there were competitions I attended that never ended up giving us blank electronic copies of the full set of tests at all. So be grateful if tournaments really give you that kind of luxury service and don’t be so nitpicky towards those who don’t. Not everyone can get all that stuff together THAT quickly, and I assure you they’re doing their best to get the tests back to you as soon as possible. And my main point is that in the meantime, just chill, and a good use of time would be to study other resources that are right in front of you, such as the internet, while you wait for the tests to come back.
In my experience, tournaments typically take between 2-7 days to release the full set of tests to participating teams. I am responsible for this effort at the Solon Invitational, and it is a larger task than you would imagine, even without customized watermarks.
So, I have two perspectives here. One being that, I agree, getting tests back that quickly is incredibly fast (the 2-7 days that Nick mentioned is accurate in my experience). Until this year, Brookwood was the only Div C invitational in Georgia that gave back blank tests, and it usually still takes a week or so (though all of that has been changing for the better recently). On the other hand, having collected and distributed tests for our invitational for the last two years, it doesn't really take that much effort. If I were not too tired to do anything after the tournament, I would probably have the tests for our invitational out within a few hours of awards, completely ready.
The level of frustration is always high this time of year, and at 1am, the lines if reasoning are haphazard. For larger universities, perhaps I could see the release of exams not hurting them from getting the attendance for the experience. Smaller invitationals may go to the wayside, however, as they may not get the draw of teams for the price tags included for bussing. It's easier to justify to parents the cost of an MIT vs the cost of a high school invy in a neighboring state. If these exams were released, the experience may not necessarily be deemed worthwhile for the middle of the road school.
Definitely agree here. I doubt we'll see even moderately common public releases in any area of the nation for 15+ years, if/when invitationals and tests become so common that they're no longer as valued.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » January 23rd, 2018, 6:02 am

Definitely agree here. I doubt we'll see even moderately common public releases in any area of the nation for 15+ years, if/when invitationals and tests become so common that they're no longer as valued.
This is a somewhat pessimistic view from my perspective. I think that if there is a concerted effort to start making test resources more publicly available, I'd say seeing most of the major invitationals releasing tests is a good goal for 10 years from now. It'll likely take a great deal of cooperation, but we're at the point where a large number of cross-state invitationals are run by alumni, and these groups tend to be rather inter-connected. I also think it's important to keep separating the value of invitationals vs. the value of tests, because while they are both important resources, the true value of each is rather different.

I dunno, perhaps I'm overly optimistic. But I've seen the beginning of support for publicly releasing tests among alumni here, and with the rate things are changing from year to year (who would have expected an alumni-led Cornell nationals 10 years ago?), I think it's doable.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Unome » January 23rd, 2018, 6:17 am

Definitely agree here. I doubt we'll see even moderately common public releases in any area of the nation for 15+ years, if/when invitationals and tests become so common that they're no longer as valued.
This is a somewhat pessimistic view from my perspective. I think that if there is a concerted effort to start making test resources more publicly available, I'd say seeing most of the major invitationals releasing tests is a good goal for 10 years from now. It'll likely take a great deal of cooperation, but we're at the point where a large number of cross-state invitationals are run by alumni, and these groups tend to be rather inter-connected. I also think it's important to keep separating the value of invitationals vs. the value of tests, because while they are both important resources, the true value of each is rather different.

I dunno, perhaps I'm overly optimistic. But I've seen the beginning of support for publicly releasing tests among alumni here, and with the rate things are changing from year to year (who would have expected an alumni-led Cornell nationals 10 years ago?), I think it's doable.
I agree with that. I was talking about, say, half the invitationals in Ohio doing it or something.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby EastStroudsburg13 » January 23rd, 2018, 7:02 am

Definitely agree here. I doubt we'll see even moderately common public releases in any area of the nation for 15+ years, if/when invitationals and tests become so common that they're no longer as valued.
This is a somewhat pessimistic view from my perspective. I think that if there is a concerted effort to start making test resources more publicly available, I'd say seeing most of the major invitationals releasing tests is a good goal for 10 years from now. It'll likely take a great deal of cooperation, but we're at the point where a large number of cross-state invitationals are run by alumni, and these groups tend to be rather inter-connected. I also think it's important to keep separating the value of invitationals vs. the value of tests, because while they are both important resources, the true value of each is rather different.

I dunno, perhaps I'm overly optimistic. But I've seen the beginning of support for publicly releasing tests among alumni here, and with the rate things are changing from year to year (who would have expected an alumni-led Cornell nationals 10 years ago?), I think it's doable.
I agree with that. I was talking about, say, half the invitationals in Ohio doing it or something.
Ah, in that case I would agree with you. It's also probably hard to expect a majority of invitationals to publish tests when many invitationals still do not publish final scores; asking for a full upload of a test set would be a tall ask in that case, and not just because of test protectiveness!
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby varunscs11 » January 23rd, 2018, 7:13 am

If I were not too tired to do anything after the tournament
This is a key point - running a tournament is tiring at all levels, more so for the planning committee and directors. They pull so many all nighters the week of MIT it's crazy and without the planning committee, events like Rocks, Forensics, Chem Lab, Mat Sci, WIDI, etc would never be set up in time and the material acquisition would be so much more painful. Furthermore, they have to clean everything up after the competition. So it's understandable why releasing exams within 24 hours is not a priority / reality. After all that time and work they put in to make an invitational that is better run and has better exams that Nationals, I think it's perfectly okay for them to take a break, they are people too.

Also it's MIT's prerogative to release exams however they want. But let's be honest, would we really be having this conversation if the tournament was poorly run? Probably not because the discussion would be dominated by how bad event X was or how proctor Y didn't follow the rules or how the awards ceremony was late by Z hours.
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Re: MIT Invitational 2018

Postby Unome » January 23rd, 2018, 2:39 pm

If I were not too tired to do anything after the tournament
This is a key point - running a tournament is tiring at all levels, more so for the planning committee and directors. They pull so many all nighters the week of MIT it's crazy and without the planning committee, events like Rocks, Forensics, Chem Lab, Mat Sci, WIDI, etc would never be set up in time and the material acquisition would be so much more painful.
Ok, I guess I have never pulled an all-nighter at all, so I'm not really that tired (in fact I don't think I've ever stayed up past 11 or so for scioly purposes). I probably should just release tests the same day...
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