New York 2018

ScottMaurer19
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Re: New York 2018

Postby ScottMaurer19 » April 16th, 2018, 10:24 am

I do agree, however with their appeal for battery buggy because it was able to pass invitationals and regionals prior to states. That was an unfair decision and I believe it should have been able to run and compete. They were not notified at these tournaments of the unlabeled batteries and were not able to fix them because of this.
This is not true. Just because supervisors at prior regional/invitational tournaments do not penalize for something does NOT mean it is okay and therefore legal at future competitions. Different supervisors interpret the rules in different ways and some are more strict on rules than others. If the supervisor can point to a specific line in the rules that results in a penalty, then it is 100% a fair and justified ruling. When I have supervised build events in the past, I am definitely slightly more lenient at regionals and invitationals and choose to keep in mind the intent of the rules rather than a strict interpretation, but at a State tournament, you can bet I will penalize for every little detail and withhold a very strict interpretation. The SO battery policy is VERY CLEAR and it is reiterated in the Battery Buggy rules. It is the responsibility of the team to ensure their device falls within the parameters of the rules and it should have been as easy as having a team member or coach go through the rules and check your device before competition to make sure the competitor didn't overlook anything as seemingly trivial as this.
I had the same thoughts. What is weird this year is that the battery policy doesn't not say that labels are required (I was about to post something very similar when I decided to check...) although it has in years past
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2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

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windu34
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Re: New York 2018

Postby windu34 » April 16th, 2018, 10:32 am

I do agree, however with their appeal for battery buggy because it was able to pass invitationals and regionals prior to states. That was an unfair decision and I believe it should have been able to run and compete. They were not notified at these tournaments of the unlabeled batteries and were not able to fix them because of this.
This is not true. Just because supervisors at prior regional/invitational tournaments do not penalize for something does NOT mean it is okay and therefore legal at future competitions. Different supervisors interpret the rules in different ways and some are more strict on rules than others. If the supervisor can point to a specific line in the rules that results in a penalty, then it is 100% a fair and justified ruling. When I have supervised build events in the past, I am definitely slightly more lenient at regionals and invitationals and choose to keep in mind the intent of the rules rather than a strict interpretation, but at a State tournament, you can bet I will penalize for every little detail and withhold a very strict interpretation. The SO battery policy is VERY CLEAR and it is reiterated in the Battery Buggy rules. It is the responsibility of the team to ensure their device falls within the parameters of the rules and it should have been as easy as having a team member or coach go through the rules and check your device before competition to make sure the competitor didn't overlook anything as seemingly trivial as this.
I had the same thoughts. What is weird this year is that the battery policy doesn't not say that labels are required (I was about to post something very similar when I decided to check...) although it has in years past
Really? Thats disappointing...good thing that Battery Buggy rule 3.b. states: "Electrical energy used by the vehicle for any purpose, including propulsion, must be stored in a maximum of 8 (eight) AA 1.5-volt common, commercially available batteries, as labeled by the manufacturer."
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Re: New York 2018

Postby wzhang5460 » April 16th, 2018, 10:42 am

What about the use of "as" in the rules? Does this imply that if it is not labelled by the maker, it is fine? Next year please get rid of "as" since it is confusing. Thanks for the insight.
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Towers 2018: 10th

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CMS AC
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Re: New York 2018

Postby CMS AC » April 16th, 2018, 10:48 am

I'm not trying to take sides or anything, but if it's not labeled, then what would you do windu? It's technically "as labeled by the manufacturer", but it's... not labeled. I would personally play it safe and just not bring it, but you could easily argue both sides.

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windu34
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Re: New York 2018

Postby windu34 » April 16th, 2018, 11:24 am

I'm not trying to take sides or anything, but if it's not labeled, then what would you do windu? It's technically "as labeled by the manufacturer", but it's... not labeled. I would personally play it safe and just not bring it, but you could easily argue both sides.
Sure it would have been clearer for the rule-writing committee to have explicitly stated "the batteries must be labeled", but one of the biggest constraints that people don't consider is that the rules for each event are limited to 1 page (or 2 in the case of tech/physics events) and therefore being as concise as possible when writing the rules is crucial. I have heard of very few instances (not to say that they don't occur of course) of people not using labelled batteries.

Additionally, if the method of verifying the voltage is by the manufacturer label ONLY as stated in the rules, then the supervisor could have penalized you for not complying with the section in the rules specifying what type of battery is being used or the voltage constraint because it can't be verified.

Personally, since I am familiar with R/C batteries and such, I would overlook it at a regional competition and maybe even an invitational if I can immediately recognize what type of battery pack it is and the voltage based on the size and shape of the battery pack, but I would be certain to "scold" the competitors and tell them they need to use batteries that are labeled in the future. I see the purpose of these levels of competitions as learning experiences and if I know that the team will not gain an advantage over other teams, I believe it is fair to let the compete as such. If it were a States competition, I usually check the devices over during impound for violations so I can inform the team that they have a violation that they need to fix so they have an opportunity to try and fix it. If I didn't catch it during impound or the team couldn't fix it, I would most likely tier/penalize according to the rules (not familiar enough with battery buggy rules to know which is the consequence). The implications of a penalty/tier at a state competition can be huge and teams that follow the rules should be rewarded for doing so and those that do not should not be scored similarly.

I have tiered/penalized plenty of teams thus far in my Division D career and have never lost an arbitration because I can clearly point to a section in the rules or to an FAQ/clarification. Arbitration committees are always happy to side with the supervisor in these cases regarding the rules.
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IvanGe
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Re: New York 2018

Postby IvanGe » April 16th, 2018, 11:41 am

I don't think we should be hating on our own coaches or on people on other teams. Without your coach, you wouldn't even be able to go to invitationals, regs, or states. If your coach didn't volunteer to coach the FM team, Eagle Hill Science Olympiad wouldn't even be a team.

We shouldn't be making accusations to wzhang because he indeed worked on the a lot on the towers, and indeed Dale and a kid from the WM team helped give him advice.
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Re: New York 2018

Postby Sh1mSh4dy » April 16th, 2018, 12:02 pm

First of all, the comment by "Fmschools" does not reflect what the Eagle Hill Science Olympiad Teams thinks at all. We still do not know who this is, or if it is even somebody on our team at all.

We are in no way blaming the new coaches or any individuals for loss. All the individuals mentioned in Fmschool's essay have all worked very hard, and it is upsetting to read some of the things that have been said. Science Olympiad is a team effort and assigning the blame on your partners is incredibly irresponsible.

I think that it is fair to say that if battery buggy hadn't been tiered, we would've had a good shot at nationals. For this, I am proud of my entire team.

I personally do not blame the battery buggy proctors, I can't blame any proctors for running an event harshly. In the end, it was down to us not being able to prove that our vehicle was within the rules. (Although I think we should have been able to bring the buggy within the rules?)

So please, disregard the comments in Fmschool's post, because it is not fair to the rest of us and our HS team. Best of luck to Gelinas and Goff at nationals.

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Re: New York 2018

Postby DaleYoU » April 16th, 2018, 12:28 pm

You guys be bugging out about Towers. I am just trying to help out an Asian kid by mentoring him. This Asian kid needs the help because he needs to impress another member of Gelinas. I helped teach him how to glue the joints. All of you are bugging out cause of seeing a Chubby Asian kid walk up for the medal. LITTLE DO YOU THAT CHUBBY ASIAN KID IS A GOD.

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Re: New York 2018

Postby Danny » April 16th, 2018, 12:31 pm

So please, disregard the comments in Fmschool's post, because it is not fair to the rest of us and our HS team. Best of luck to Gelinas and Goff at nationals.
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kate!
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Re: New York 2018

Postby kate! » April 16th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Hi
Posts should have a legitimate purpose. Users should not post two word replies, personal attacks, malicious rumors, or advertisement for a paid service.
This isn't the right forum for chatting either. If you just want to talk to people, either go to scioly.org/chat or post in the General Chat forums.
Two years ago I knew stuff about rocks, minerals, experiments, and ecosystems, yay!
Last year I knew stuff about amphibians, reptiles, water, and more experiments, yay again!
Now I'm learning stuff about oceanography, fossils, and writing/following instructions, yay for the third time!


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