Mission Possible C

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antoine_ego
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by antoine_ego »

ScottMaurer19 wrote: Needless to say an arbitration was filed (thank you to my head coach and mother Cherese Fiorina and assistant coach/brother NicholasMaurer--who demanded that I call him out by name so he can take credit) and we won the appeal; I was to be permitted a complete rerun (one of the few ever to happen) with my balloon timer not counting for chemical timer points, my balloon action not scoring the 50 points, and a touch penalty. My device functioned exactly as intended although scoring substantially less than I was hoping and as far as I knew at the time ruining my chances of placing.
We had the exact same issue with our Mission. We lost the appeal even though our team was able to show the exact nature of the error (a leak in our case). :cry: I'm a little disappointed that the rule was not reapplied consistently to all teams, since a complete rerun was justified for both our teams.

Still, congrats to your Mission for still placing well despite such a large penalty! It shows just how well designed it was.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by ScottMaurer19 »

antoine_ego wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: Needless to say an arbitration was filed (thank you to my head coach and mother Cherese Fiorina and assistant coach/brother NicholasMaurer--who demanded that I call him out by name so he can take credit) and we won the appeal; I was to be permitted a complete rerun (one of the few ever to happen) with my balloon timer not counting for chemical timer points, my balloon action not scoring the 50 points, and a touch penalty. My device functioned exactly as intended although scoring substantially less than I was hoping and as far as I knew at the time ruining my chances of placing.
We had the exact same issue with our Mission. We lost the appeal even though our team was able to show the exact nature of the error (a leak in our case). :cry: I'm a little disappointed that the rule was not reapplied consistently to all teams, since a complete rerun was justified for both our teams.

Still, congrats to your Mission for still placing well despite such a large penalty! It shows just how well designed it was.
It is very dissappointing to hear that the same misuse of a rule cost you that large of a placement drop even with an arbitration. I'd be interested to see why the arbitration went favorably for us and not for you because that seems, well, arbitrary. Maybe the difference was that mine had an obvious issue that could be seen visually? I'm not sure what to think about them flip-flopping on decisions for very similar cases. At least the volunteers running it misapplied the rule equally I guess...
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2018 (r/s/n):
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Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by ScottMaurer19 »

For those of you who are interested, here is a link to my ASL. I will likely post pictures on the same document eventually.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12Hq ... MEbRk/edit
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by OwenBall »

ScottMaurer19 wrote:So for all those that are wondering (if there are any) here is what happened to my mission at nats:

To start with, here are my dimensions, tasks, timer, etc. My device was 14.5x16x20.5cm, had all the tasks, and I was running a 2 min 35 second chemical plus or minus 5 seconds using alkaseltzer and water that inflated the balloon for my balloon action. When testing my device before nationals, my timer ran 45 seconds fast, prompting me to recalibrate to 2 min 15 sec to play on the safe side.

So fast forward to competition...
I'm running my device, my balloon is inflating, and the balloon folds. For the first time ever, the balloon had folded over in the tube giving it 0% chance of completing the task (please note that I had done literally 100s of tests without any failure and without any incidence of the balloon folding). So I had, of course, come up with a plan to just lose my balloon action and timer and dropping me out of placing but preventing me from bombing. So I bring my hand up and ask the volunteer (who had been ES at previous invitationals, gave me a hard time at said invitationals, and treated me as if I had no idea what I was doing in my event) judging my device if I can use a touch to skip the action and because the balloon had folded and would be unable to finish the action. Now, anyone who's ever competed in mission would have expected to been allowed to use the touch and that my asking was simply courtesy and so as to not surpise the ES.

Instead I was told no. Multiple times. The reasoning? Because the balloon was still inflating and moving and therefore per rule 4h I wasn't allowed to touch because the balloon hadn't stopped or jammed and because it hadn't failed because it was still inflating and the chemical reaction was still running. That is absolutely not how the event is supposed to be run. So instead of being allowed to carry out my backup plan and save the rest of my run, I was denied my fair oppurtunity to run a device I had spent countless hours upon and had been winning all season.

Needless to say an arbitration was filed (thank you to my head coach and mother Cherese Fiorina and assistant coach/brother NicholasMaurer--who demanded that I call him out by name so he can take credit) and we won the appeal; I was to be permitted a complete rerun (one of the few ever to happen) with my balloon timer not counting for chemical timer points, my balloon action not scoring the 50 points, and a touch penalty. My device functioned exactly as intended although scoring substantially less than I was hoping and as far as I knew at the time ruining my chances of placing.

Rumor has it that Patrick Chalker expanded the rule 4h from simply stop to stop, jam, or fail for exactly that reason.

So, to sum it up, my device beat the odds having the timer fail for the first time and a successful arbitration that allowed the rerun of a device. It underperformed which was upsetting enough considering I was aiming for the top three and then they refused to let me save any reasonable placement I would have been able to get with said performance. This was the single worst application of the rules I have have ever heard of in mission that came, at least in my opinion, from an arrogant volunteer who assumes a huge sense superiority and intelligence over any competitor that they judge.


Note to the volunteer: just because your team has done well in mission at nationals in the past does not give you the right to tell me how to build my device for states and nats. Just because my "device looks like it could of performed really well" and you "don't want to do this" doesn't give you the right to misapply the rules and deny me the right to take a penalty in order to save my device. And FYI, a halogen creates light by HEATING up a filament and therefore you should not ask me to remove it from my device to prove that it actually generates enough heat that you or a thermometer could measure. I think my shocking sixth place finish despite an unexpected failed action and your miscoring and poor handling of the situation (there were many ways the situation could've been handled better even with your view of the rules) is amazing. This rant was not to be rude but should be seen as a wakeup call in how you run the even in the future and how you treat and view the competitors who are at your mercy for receiving the due credit from their hard work.

Please ignore any spelling/grammatical errors as I am exhausted and sick (like half my team :D )

I heard that other people may have issues with the same volunteer if they would like to share. And again, this post is not to be rude in anyway shape or form even if some of the things stated were emotionally bias. They are simply my views of the competition.
I was at the table right next to you when you ran your device and I overheard a lot of what the judge was saying. It was quite ridiculous hearing the judge say that you couldn't touch it despite you clearly indicating the action had failed. It was totally uncalled for and a complete misunderstanding of the rules by the judge. Given your dimensions, even with a touch you probably would have gotten 3rd or 4th. I didn't see how everything played out since I had to run mine but I'm happy to hear you at least got a rerun and its amazing how well you still did.

As for the timer, We experienced a similar issue with mine running a minute fast. We assumed it was because of the low pressure and ended up spending a few hours diluting things and getting it back to the time we wanted.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by daydreamer0023 »

Unome wrote:Mira Loma's Mission was apparently in the range of 5 cm x 10 cm x 20 cm (all tasks and chemical timer).
Um...no. I saw that thing and when I asked Mira Loma about it later, they said it was along the lines of 13 cm x 17 cm x 20 cm. Had it been that size I would have collapsed from the sheer insanity of it. It's still really good though.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by DarthBuilder »

daydreamer0023 wrote:
Unome wrote:Mira Loma's Mission was apparently in the range of 5 cm x 10 cm x 20 cm (all tasks and chemical timer).
Um...no. I saw that thing and when I asked Mira Loma about it later, they said it was along the lines of 13 cm x 17 cm x 20 cm. Had it been that size I would have collapsed from the sheer insanity of it. It's still really good though.
I also heard it was 5x10x20
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by daydreamer0023 »

DarthBuilder wrote:
daydreamer0023 wrote:
Unome wrote:Mira Loma's Mission was apparently in the range of 5 cm x 10 cm x 20 cm (all tasks and chemical timer).
Um...no. I saw that thing and when I asked Mira Loma about it later, they said it was along the lines of 13 cm x 17 cm x 20 cm. Had it been that size I would have collapsed from the sheer insanity of it. It's still really good though.
I also heard it was 5x10x20
Not sure who you heard it from but I stand by what I heard directly from them. Either way, I'd let it rest unless they clarify for themselves directly on the forums.
"I am among those who think that science has great beauty. A scientist in his laboratory is not only a technician: he is also a child placed before natural phenomena which impress him like a fairy tale." - Marie Curie

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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by Unome »

daydreamer0023 wrote:
DarthBuilder wrote:
daydreamer0023 wrote:
Um...no. I saw that thing and when I asked Mira Loma about it later, they said it was along the lines of 13 cm x 17 cm x 20 cm. Had it been that size I would have collapsed from the sheer insanity of it. It's still really good though.
I also heard it was 5x10x20
Not sure who you heard it from but I stand by what I heard directly from them. Either way, I'd let it rest unless they clarify for themselves directly on the forums.
You're probably right, my knowledge was mainly hearsay.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by PM2017 »

Unome wrote:
daydreamer0023 wrote:
DarthBuilder wrote:
I also heard it was 5x10x20
Not sure who you heard it from but I stand by what I heard directly from them. Either way, I'd let it rest unless they clarify for themselves directly on the forums.
You're probably right, my knowledge was mainly hearsay.
Rip. I shared this info with people on Discord XD.
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Re: Mission Possible C

Post by ScottMaurer19 »

PM2017 wrote:
Unome wrote:
daydreamer0023 wrote:
Not sure who you heard it from but I stand by what I heard directly from them. Either way, I'd let it rest unless they clarify for themselves directly on the forums.
You're probably right, my knowledge was mainly hearsay.
Rip. I shared this info with people on Discord XD.
I was able to glance at it during run #1, but I was a bit distracted too look closely. I would say the larger dimensions are more feasible but I can certainly see the smaller ones being possible if you had near infinite time to work on it
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80
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