Chemical Clocks

[Iwilsonp]

The new rules clarification https://www.soinc.org/could-timer-have- ... -ending-it for Mission Possible renders this task next to impossible - how are we supposed to detect the end of a chemical timer without an electric sensor? Even something as simple as a weight-sensitive switch could be interpreted as an electric sensor.

It also contradicts this one: https://www.soinc.org/may-next-task-sta ... -action-4c. Clearly, the final action must be electronic, and therefore must be triggered by electrical means, yet the previous clarification forbade timers ending in electrical sensors.

Care to comment chalker?

[Unome]

The only thing I can think of is an expanding gaseous chemical reaction that triggers a mechanical action.

[ScottMaurer19]

The new rules clarification https://www.soinc.org/could-timer-have- ... -ending-it for Mission Possible renders this task next to impossible - how are we supposed to detect the end of a chemical timer without an electric sensor? Even something as simple as a weight-sensitive switch could be interpreted as an electric sensor.

It also contradicts this one: https://www.soinc.org/may-next-task-sta ... -action-4c. Clearly, the final action must be electronic, and therefore must be triggered by electrical means, yet the previous clarification forbade timers ending in electrical sensors.

Care to comment chalker?

I'm not Chalker but I'm going to comment anyways. Technically a limit switch wouldn't be an electronic sensor provided you have the lever attachment on it. If it is a chemical reaction that creates an expanding gas which then would mechanically hit the lever on the switch and THEN trip the switch I would consider that the same as hitting a marble and having that roll into a button. Needless to say I submitted an FAQ asking for clarification on this issue.

[SluffAndRuff]

An expanding gas... it will be very difficult to come up with a reaction that can a) last nearly 3 minutes and b) be consistent.

It occurred to me - if you used a funnel to gradually add a reactant to a mixture, would that still be considered chemical?

[ScottMaurer19]

An expanding gas... it will be very difficult to come up with a reaction that can a) last nearly 3 minutes and b) be consistent.

It occurred to me - if you used a funnel to gradually add a reactant to a mixture, would that still be considered chemical?

No. See note sent on an FAQ I submitted below. I would qualify the funnel as mechanical.

The original question:
What is the definition of a chemical vs. a mechanical task (as a timer for
bonus points)?

Notes:
What differentiates a chemical from a mechanical timer? Is any task involving
a chemical reaction acceptable or must the timer be adjusted by changing the
rate of reaction through non-mechanical means?
Mission Possible

(section: 4 / paragraph: g / sub-paragraph: ii / line: 1)

The answer is in your question. The chemical timer must be adjusted by
changing the
rate of reaction through non-mechanical means.
See posted FAQ

[Dark Sabre]

The Merriam Webster definition of sensor leaves a bit to be desired for deciding what is allowed:

a device that responds to a physical stimulus (such as heat, light, sound, pressure, magnetism, or a particular motion) and transmits a resulting impulse (as for measurement or operating a control)

But from an industry perspective I can tell you that a temperature sensor would be an RTD or an NTC thermistor.
A temperature switch would be a bimetallic thermostat.
Same things goes for pressure between a pressure transducer and a pressure switch.

The difference being that the sensors are capable of outputting a range of results, whereas the switch only works in off/on operation.

For reference see how Honeywell categorizes their products:
https://sensing.honeywell.com/sensors
https://sensing.honeywell.com/switches

TE and other companies follow the same approach:
http://www.te.com/usa-en/products/sensors.html

I definitely do not see the two clarifications as contradictory. Even without getting into the sensor/switch debate, something as simple as building up pressure could definitely press play on a tape recorder or some such device.

I look forward to seeing continued discussion on the sensors topic...

[Iwilsonp]

The Merriam Webster definition of sensor leaves a bit to be desired for deciding what is allowed:

a device that responds to a physical stimulus (such as heat, light, sound, pressure, magnetism, or a particular motion) and transmits a resulting impulse (as for measurement or operating a control)

But from an industry perspective I can tell you that a temperature sensor would be an RTD or an NTC thermistor.
A temperature switch would be a bimetallic thermostat.
Same things goes for pressure between a pressure transducer and a pressure switch.

The difference being that the sensors are capable of outputting a range of results, whereas the switch only works in off/on operation.

For reference see how Honeywell categorizes their products:
https://sensing.honeywell.com/sensors
https://sensing.honeywell.com/switches

TE and other companies follow the same approach:
http://www.te.com/usa-en/products/sensors.html

I definitely do not see the two clarifications as contradictory. Even without getting into the sensor/switch debate, something as simple as building up pressure could definitely press play on a tape recorder or some such device.

I look forward to seeing continued discussion on the sensors topic...

Ah, but the button on the recorder is no different from an electric switch (inside the recorder, that's all it is). So if switches are banned, your method also fails.

Of course, if switches are allowed (I was thinking they were also going to be forbidden), that ends the contradiction between the two FAQs. I just asked a FAQ for clarification.

[AbdullahNauman]

This is certainly contradictory and extremely vague as the response as quite literally just "No.".

However, I think that Dark Sabre does provide an interesting take on this. It possible for this to be simply referring to sensors transmitting actual data, where reaching a certain temperature threshold would have a microcontroller start the next task. On the other hand, having a simple bimetallic strip which acts as a switch in response to temperature change would be fine, no?

I don't believe gas expansion would be a very consistent or feasible for a full 120 seconds.

Chalker?

[Dark Sabre]

Ah, but the button on the recorder is no different from an electric switch (inside the recorder, that's all it is). So if switches are banned, your method also fails.

Fair enough, I didn't consider that proposal thoroughly enough.

So you could have the timer release the wound spring (uh oh, does that make it a spring timer? ) mechanism on a purely mechanical phonograph... If you can fit one in the box

I'm not going to promise you that switches are allowed, I just want to draw a distinction between sensors and switches since that was the noun in the Question. Perhaps a more verbose answer will shed some light onto the intent; till then I'm only projecting my own opinions on what qualifies as an electrically powered action.

[ScottMaurer19]

Ah, but the button on the recorder is no different from an electric switch (inside the recorder, that's all it is). So if switches are banned, your method also fails.

Fair enough, I didn't consider that proposal thoroughly enough.

So you could have the timer release the wound spring (uh oh, does that make it a spring timer? ) mechanism on a purely mechanical phonograph... If you can fit one in the box

I'm not going to promise you that switches are allowed, I just want to draw a distinction between sensors and switches since that was the noun in the Question. Perhaps a more verbose answer will shed some light onto the intent; till then I'm only projecting my own opinions on what qualifies as an electrically powered action.

If we aren't allowed to use switches then one could hit a marble which could then hit a switch. Which would kind of ruin the whole point of not allowing switches but