Roller Coaster B

JionPark
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby JionPark » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:45 pm

I watched a roller coaster video, and it was a kit to the Science Olympiad. Two half pipes were used to create more time for the marble, but I wanted to know if they're allowed.
Events:
2016: Crave the Wave, Mission Possible, and Invasive Species (1,?,?)
2017: Experimental Design, Mission Possible, and Fast Facts (R.I.P)
2018: Herpetology, Solar System, Fast Facts, and Roller Coaster (3,2,1,2)
2019: Water Quality, Code Busters


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5 Medals :o

sandvinsd
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby sandvinsd » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:18 am

Note that the Roller Coaster Spreadsheet on the national site has been updated. Early invitationals in December were using a bad spreadsheet that skewed the roller coaster and overall results for the Ladera Vista Invitational in particular. The error in that spreadsheet has been corrected and the new spreadsheet has been posted to the national site.

shrewdPanther46
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby shrewdPanther46 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:45 am

It says that the rollercoaster cannot be touched. Makes sense, as the roller coaster is supposed to be powered solely by gravitational potential energy (the height and mass of the ball initially, combined with gravity)
salty

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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby builder83 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:02 am

JionPark wrote:I watched a roller coaster video, and it was a kit to the Science Olympiad. Two half pipes were used to create more time for the marble, but I wanted to know if they're allowed.


As long as you can pull the marble off the half pipe vertically I think it would work. Also seems very difficult to fine tune the time.

kylg
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby kylg » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:34 pm

What are Chalker's contacts? I need to ask him something.
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nickb12
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby nickb12 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:41 pm

Do you guys know if we are able to create flips in the track for momentum? I skimmed over the website and rulebook and there was nothing on it.

JionPark
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby JionPark » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:24 pm

.
Last edited by JionPark on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Events:
2016: Crave the Wave, Mission Possible, and Invasive Species (1,?,?)
2017: Experimental Design, Mission Possible, and Fast Facts (R.I.P)
2018: Herpetology, Solar System, Fast Facts, and Roller Coaster (3,2,1,2)
2019: Water Quality, Code Busters


Medal Count:
5 Medals :o

JionPark
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby JionPark » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:27 pm

nickb12 wrote:Do you guys know if we are able to create flips in the track for momentum? I skimmed over the website and rulebook and there was nothing on it.


I think you're allowed to create flips. I know for sure that enclosed tubes aren't permitted, but flips aren't tubes.
I think you'll be okay. :)
Events:
2016: Crave the Wave, Mission Possible, and Invasive Species (1,?,?)
2017: Experimental Design, Mission Possible, and Fast Facts (R.I.P)
2018: Herpetology, Solar System, Fast Facts, and Roller Coaster (3,2,1,2)
2019: Water Quality, Code Busters


Medal Count:
5 Medals :o

nickb12
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby nickb12 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 pm

Thanks!

Crtomir
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby Crtomir » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:23 pm

builder83 wrote:
JionPark wrote:I watched a roller coaster video, and it was a kit to the Science Olympiad. Two half pipes were used to create more time for the marble, but I wanted to know if they're allowed.


As long as you can pull the marble off the half pipe vertically I think it would work. Also seems very difficult to fine tune the time.


The rules say nothing about being able to pull the vehicle off the track perpendicular to the line of travel. The rules only say the track should not be "enclosed", in other words, no closed tubes. A track that is not fully enclosed should be valid according to this years' rules. However, who knows if that will get changed before Sates/Nationals or not?

builder83
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby builder83 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Crtomir wrote:
builder83 wrote:
JionPark wrote:I watched a roller coaster video, and it was a kit to the Science Olympiad. Two half pipes were used to create more time for the marble, but I wanted to know if they're allowed.


As long as you can pull the marble off the half pipe vertically I think it would work. Also seems very difficult to fine tune the time.


The rules say nothing about being able to pull the vehicle off the track perpendicular to the line of travel. The rules only say the track should not be "enclosed", in other words, no closed tubes. A track that is not fully enclosed should be valid according to this years' rules. However, who knows if that will get changed before Sates/Nationals or not?


I would hesitate to use a tube with a fine cut in it either (saying its 97% enclosed but not 100%)... I believe the 'spirit of the rule' would mean any part of your track in which a marble cannot fall out or be pulled off the track would be considered enclosed. Just my take. Although I see how you could argue the the term enclosed.

jander14indoor
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby jander14indoor » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:17 am

Be careful with taking arguable approaches. Always consider how much they improve your score against the risk of being tiered for a construction violation. At states and nationals that's a pretty severe penalty.
Also consider a backup plan. Have an alternate, non controversial way to do well if needed.
What I have seen/heard discussed is you should be able to remove the marble in some direction at any point on the track.
Not official, but something to think about...

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Crtomir
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby Crtomir » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:43 pm

jander14indoor wrote:Be careful with taking arguable approaches. Always consider how much they improve your score against the risk of being tiered for a construction violation. At states and nationals that's a pretty severe penalty.
Also consider a backup plan. Have an alternate, non controversial way to do well if needed.
What I have seen/heard discussed is you should be able to remove the marble in some direction at any point on the track.
Not official, but something to think about...

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI



But, that raises a different question: How far off the track do you have to remove the vehicle? If you remove it perpendicular to the line of travel along the track, there might be a track directly above it that prevents you from removing the vehicle completely out of the whole Roller Coaster device by lifting the vehicle in the same direction, but you can still lift it 1-2cm off the track. Certainly, having a track on top of another track is within the spirit of the rules - you are not trying to enclose the bottom track or prevent the ball from falling off the bottom track, you just can't lift the sphere that high without bumping into the track above. Besides, that kind of language was used in trial event rules from last year and was explicitly taken out for some reason. Why add it in now, when the word "enclosed" has a very clear and obvious meaning to anyone familiar with the English language? Adding a statement that the vehicle has to be removable from the track in a direction perpendicular to the line of travel along the track would seem to be not clarifying the rules, but changing them significantly.

I have asked a FAQ question about this issue because it needs to be cleared up before Regional, State, and National tournaments.

Crtomir
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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby Crtomir » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:45 pm

jander14indoor wrote:Also consider a backup plan. Have an alternate, non controversial way to do well if needed.
Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI


Agreed. Our kids are building a new Roller Coaster to avoid this issue. Better not to cause the Event Officials to think. ;)

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Re: Roller Coaster B

Postby SPP SciO » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:20 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWtsOiVxIIE I'm not sure if this has been posted here before; I found it at some point but recently re-watched it more closely and it's fascinating.

Has anyone else seen tracks where the marble rolls uphill, after completing a jump? All of the iterations my students have built have been strictly downhill (with the exception of small upward curve to change the launch angle) - but I suspect that with some impressive engineering, you could take fuller advantage of the potential energy allowed by the height limit.
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