Gaps

jander14indoor
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Re: Gaps

Postby jander14indoor » January 2nd, 2018, 12:30 pm

I'm an event supervisor and I'm preparing gauges to measure the gaps for roller coaster this year. I find gauges far better than rulers for measuring tech events like Roller coaster. I need some feel for how much vertical gap goes with the horizontal gap distances being discussed. Yes I know vertical cap doesn't need to be measured, but for my gauge concept, I have to size a vertical leg appropriately. How much room within the structure is there to move a gauge.
Right now I'm thinking of essentially an L-shaped gauge with a level to verify vertical an horizontal and to measure horizontal distances. Either a series of gauges, or a couple of adjustable ones with variable leg lengths to cover different ranges. Say one for 5-10 cm, another for 10 to 20 cm, etc...
Suggestions for ranges to have on hand?
In addition, how have you seen event supervisors measuring gaps so far? What do you think worked, what didn't

Thanks,

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Kordo
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Re: Gaps

Postby Kordo » January 11th, 2018, 7:37 am

I have posted this question on the official FAQ quite a while ago but have not had a response. The second sentence in 3i states that the vehicle must pass the span to continue its run. I feel that this may be interpreted by a judge that if a marble were to fall short of a span and fall into a lower level and continue its run that this could be called a failed run. I have seen this happen on many devices but it has always been allowed to finish and the only penalty is they lose the gap and whatever time they lose because of the missed jump. I am interested in what the consensus would be on the interpretation of this rule. I don't want to get to regionals and find out then that that judge is going to run the event with this interpretation.

SPP SciO
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Re: Gaps

Postby SPP SciO » January 11th, 2018, 4:24 pm

I have posted this question on the official FAQ quite a while ago but have not had a response. The second sentence in 3i states that the vehicle must pass the span to continue its run. I feel that this may be interpreted by a judge that if a marble were to fall short of a span and fall into a lower level and continue its run that this could be called a failed run. I have seen this happen on many devices but it has always been allowed to finish and the only penalty is they lose the gap and whatever time they lose because of the missed jump. I am interested in what the consensus would be on the interpretation of this rule. I don't want to get to regionals and find out then that that judge is going to run the event with this interpretation.
I like your interpretation; I’m not a supervisor but if I were, I’d come to the same conclusion. The rules elsewhere are more explicit as to what constitutes a failed run; in the spirit of kindness there’s no reason to expand on that definition. I think some policy explicitly states that ES should always take the more lenient scoring interpretation (applied consistently to all teams, of course).

The gap has to be clearly labeled, so if they miss that gap, but made another shorter gap, they wouldn’t be able to get any points for the “backup plan gap” but the rest of the run would be ok. As for the second sentence I think it’s fair to assume it’s possible to “pass” the labeled gap (thus allowing the run to continue) without actually clearing it.
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builder83
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Re: Gaps

Postby builder83 » January 12th, 2018, 5:38 am

My gaps are adjustable. Do they allow you to change gap distances between runs? I would think so since rules say you can modify track between runs. But wondered because the scoresheet only provides 1 spot to plug in gap distances in.

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Re: Gaps

Postby Kordo » January 12th, 2018, 6:26 am

Spp- I am a coach and event supervisor, and I have been doing this since SO began. I have seen judges interpret rules in a way that will benefit their team at invitationals, regionals, and at state, and I think if this rule isn't clarified then that is leaving the door open to have this happen. The rule could even be interpreted that if your device isn't designed so that if you vehicle doesn't make the jump it will not continue on the track, then your device could be tiered even if it was a successful jump. At this late date I am for allowing a missed jump that is fortunate enough to finish its run to count. The punishment of the time cost and the loss of the jump should be enough. It's a shame that some supervisors are capable of bending the rules to benefit their teams but I have seen it happen too often. I was even apprehensive about broaching the subject because I was worried about planting the seed. I do have to say that the vast, vast majority of individuals working on these events with the students are not capable of this, they are the best of what we are capable of. If you think this could be a problem, submit an FAQ so we can avoid a hardworking student getting burned by the rules.

builder83
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Re: Gaps

Postby builder83 » January 12th, 2018, 9:36 pm

Spp- I am a coach and event supervisor, and I have been doing this since SO began. I have seen judges interpret rules in a way that will benefit their team at invitationals, regionals, and at state, and I think if this rule isn't clarified then that is leaving the door open to have this happen. The rule could even be interpreted that if your device isn't designed so that if you vehicle doesn't make the jump it will not continue on the track, then your device could be tiered even if it was a successful jump. At this late date I am for allowing a missed jump that is fortunate enough to finish its run to count. The punishment of the time cost and the loss of the jump should be enough. It's a shame that some supervisors are capable of bending the rules to benefit their teams but I have seen it happen too often. I was even apprehensive about broaching the subject because I was worried about planting the seed. I do have to say that the vast, vast majority of individuals working on these events with the students are not capable of this, they are the best of what we are capable of. If you think this could be a problem, submit an FAQ so we can avoid a hardworking student getting burned by the rules.
I am not sure why this is up for interpretation. You are right. There are only 4 ways the run should end (under rules competition K)
Run lasts beyond 1 minute, ball pauses for too long, crosses the finish line, or leaves the boundry of device.

Nowhere does the rules state that run ends with a failed jump. However, failing a jump will hurt score so much in missed points it probably won't be much different than a failed run.

sandvinsd
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Re: Gaps

Postby sandvinsd » January 14th, 2018, 9:59 am

Does anyone know the best ball to use (size or type), the ball I am using can only get me about 29-30cm of gaps. With this distance do you think that placing is possible in the New York/Pennsylvania area tournaments? Max score overall possible is about 240.
It would have placed about 3rd to 5th in the three SoCal invitationals that I am aware of. Steel marble about 4mg of weight.

nicksalanitri
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Re: Gaps

Postby nicksalanitri » January 16th, 2018, 5:54 pm

How would a score of 405 do at some tournaments?
Last edited by nicksalanitri on January 21st, 2018, 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ward Melville 2018-2019 + DMAH Coach 2019

LISO/MIT/Regionals/Cornell/States/Nats

Forensics:7/11/2/7/2/-/
Fossils:4/4/5/1/1/-/
Geologic Mapping:8/3/23/3/25/-/

JionPark
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Re: Gaps

Postby JionPark » January 17th, 2018, 1:03 pm

I apologize if this question has been answered but, "How can you make a gap higher?"
Would you have to re-adjust the track to make the ball go higher. What are the other options? How about the type of ball and size?

nicksalanitri
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Re: Gaps

Postby nicksalanitri » January 17th, 2018, 6:56 pm

My partner and I close to finish building a design that will have up to 80-90cm in gap distances, has anyone seen one with anything more than this or do you think we'll be good for most tournaments i,e. Cornell, NY States, etc. Although this does have consistency issues.
(I edited this after i had my tech day and realized how inconsistent 100cm was.
Ward Melville 2018-2019 + DMAH Coach 2019

LISO/MIT/Regionals/Cornell/States/Nats

Forensics:7/11/2/7/2/-/
Fossils:4/4/5/1/1/-/
Geologic Mapping:8/3/23/3/25/-/


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