Wright Stuff B

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bernard
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Wright Stuff B

Postby bernard » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:20 pm

"One of the ways that I believe people express their appreciation to the rest of humanity is to make something wonderful and put it out there."

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Why is the Visibility marker black this year?

Postby PHXcoach » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:14 pm

Can someone explain why the visibility marker has to be black this year instead of colored?

I preferred color which made it easier to identify planes both between and within teams.

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Re: Why is the Visibility marker black this year?

Postby Unome » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:16 pm

PHXcoach wrote:Can someone explain why the visibility marker has to be black this year instead of colored?

I preferred color which made it easier to identify planes both between and within teams.

Perhaps there were issues with very light colors being used? I'm not sure, but that seems like the most likely reason to me.
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Re: Why is the Visibility marker black this year?

Postby bernard » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:44 pm

Unome wrote:
PHXcoach wrote:Can someone explain why the visibility marker has to be black this year instead of colored?

I preferred color which made it easier to identify planes both between and within teams.

Perhaps there were issues with very light colors being used? I'm not sure, but that seems like the most likely reason to me.

The change should not be a difficult one to accommodate as black permanent markers are common.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby coachchuckaahs » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:51 pm

It would seem from the rules statement that the black markings MUST be from a magic marker? Does that mean one cannot airbrush with black ink or thinned paint? This probably means one has to mark the covering before application, or risk damage in trying to mark the built airframe.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby chalker » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:45 am

coachchuckaahs wrote:It would seem from the rules statement that the black markings MUST be from a magic marker? Does that mean one cannot airbrush with black ink or thinned paint? This probably means one has to mark the covering before application, or risk damage in trying to mark the built airframe.

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I'd suggest reading the rules a bit more carefully, as you some to be inferring certain things that don't appear to be explicitly stated. Regarding your question as to WHY this is a new rule, it's due to a very unusual arbitration that happened at the national tournament last year that centered around the meaning of the word "opaque", which is how the covering was previously described. To prevent any ambiguity in the future, they chose to use the word 'black' instead.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby bernard » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:23 am

chalker wrote:
coachchuckaahs wrote:It would seem from the rules statement that the black markings MUST be from a magic marker? Does that mean one cannot airbrush with black ink or thinned paint? This probably means one has to mark the covering before application, or risk damage in trying to mark the built airframe.

Chuck


I'd suggest reading the rules a bit more carefully, as you some to be inferring certain things that don't appear to be explicitly stated. Regarding your question as to WHY this is a new rule, it's due to a very unusual arbitration that happened at the national tournament last year that centered around the meaning of the word "opaque", which is how the covering was previously described. To prevent any ambiguity in the future, they chose to use the word 'black' instead.

Rule 5.c. states, "completely marked with black marker or black tissue." This allows only two options: marking with black marker or black tissue.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby coachchuckaahs » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:37 am

Thanks, Bernard. That was what I had read too, and thus my question. I guess to be safe (sans tissue) we'll use marker.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby bernard » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:45 am

coachchuckaahs wrote:Thanks, Bernard. That was what I had read too, and thus my question. I guess to be safe (sans tissue) we'll use marker.

Chuck

Coloring before applying wing covering is safer but I imagine coloring after covering can also be done by careful hands.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby chalker » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:16 am

bernard wrote:
chalker wrote:
coachchuckaahs wrote:It would seem from the rules statement that the black markings MUST be from a magic marker? Does that mean one cannot airbrush with black ink or thinned paint? This probably means one has to mark the covering before application, or risk damage in trying to mark the built airframe.

Chuck


I'd suggest reading the rules a bit more carefully, as you some to be inferring certain things that don't appear to be explicitly stated. Regarding your question as to WHY this is a new rule, it's due to a very unusual arbitration that happened at the national tournament last year that centered around the meaning of the word "opaque", which is how the covering was previously described. To prevent any ambiguity in the future, they chose to use the word 'black' instead.

Rule 5.c. states, "completely marked with black marker or black tissue." This allows only two options: marking with black marker or black tissue.


The point I was trying to make was that you could also use black tissue. That is to say that the black markings can be either from magic marker OR black tissue. I can understand that you were trying to refer just to the first part of the rule (i.e. if you don't use black tissue you must use a black marker), but I didn't want someone to read this is miss that important part.

Regarding using black ink or thinned paint instead of a marker, I can't think of any reasonable way that an event supervisor would be able to determine non-invasively whether the black mark was from a marker or those 2 types of things, so I wouldn't recommend getting too bent out of shape about this.

As always, this isn't the place for official statements or clarifications.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby coachchuckaahs » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:47 pm

Sorry if my tone came across bent out of shape, not intended. Thanks for replies, and I recognize the site is not official.

We did fly this week, and our first build flew well. Kids are excited to see their creation fly. Unfortunately, still too warm outside and we could not get A/C turned off, but we got the plane trimmed and got some decent times considering the rough conditions.

And we used a super-fat black Sharpie

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby fifty_missions » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:56 pm

Changes to Black-

There are a number of reasons for the markings already. The most predominant is for officials and especially the timers to track models in flight. This especially true in high ceiling sites such as the Illinois state flying site in an armory and Indiana's state site at a fieldhouse. As for black, there is no questioning on the color, period. It avoids issues of what is non-white or opaque.

This color marking is also for spectators so they, too, are able to track the models in flight. This can be difficult for them searching for a model with mostly clear covering rendering it to be quite stealthy especially when near the ceiling and bright lights.

Lastly, it also helps the photographers to better track the model while they are aiming heavy cameras. The flying events tend to get their attention as well as most spectators because we have accommodated the visual perception issue. Talk with any professional photographer, Black is one of their preferred colors for tracking an object.

Every year Science Olympiad introduces some degree of change especially in the flying events. This color change to Black is just one.

BTW, Black Tissue is probably the best way to go. Less chance to poke a hole or stretch in the covering during application and the color coverage is excellent. What very little mass it adds can be used to an advantage for basic trim designed into the model Just waft some spray adhesive over the Black tissue and apply. Make the tissue longer that the chord and simply wrap around the leading and trailing edges. Makes for a very clean install of Black.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:56 pm

Does anybody know when Dave Zeigler will release the 2017-2018 division B wright stuff kit?
Also, Since there is no specific way to tell whether or not you used a "magic marker" to mark your model black, I assume that the decision will be subjective. One could argue the pigments in different brands of "magic marker" when applied evenly are almost identical to a black spray. One Idea I have right now is cutting open a "magic marker" and squeezing the pigment out, then diluting it with a liquid and spray and/or brush on. Technically I am using a magic marker.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby retired1 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:15 pm

Hi,
Dave is taking pre orders by email only at this time. Kits will be shipped the end of this month or early next month. He said that he plans to have his web site up the first of next month.
This years kit is a bit similar to last years with several improvements to make it easier to build.

I do not think that event supervisors are going to be terribly picky about the black panel if you have made a reasonable effort to comply. There is always the possibility of a purist for the ES, so do the best that you can to avoid problems.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:06 pm

So, how do you preorder the 2018 model? You go to freedom flight models, get his email, and request to pre-order? How would you pay him if it is in an email?
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