Wright Stuff B

kinghong1970
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kinghong1970 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:38 pm

kylg wrote:So, how do you preorder the 2018 model? You go to freedom flight models, get his email, and request to pre-order? How would you pay him if it is in an email?


you go to his website, you can find his contact.
i suggest you email him and see what arrangements you can make with him.

paypal? credit card number over phone? get address and mail him a check? just some of the common techniques available in the e-commerce world these days.

cheers!

SPP SciO
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby SPP SciO » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:38 pm

On the subject of kits, and I mentioned it in the other thread but I’ll give another free advertisement here: check out Laser Cut Planes.

The first couple of years I coached SciO I ordered from Freedom Flight models (gliders then, and a few propeller planes to get started with Wright Stuff) and the quality of instructions and materials was excellent. However, it’s not a good place to start. We ultimately had more success building gliders from scratch, and then finding the Laser Cut Planes. LCP models went together quickly, without my intervention, and kids were flying much sooner.

It’s worth saying again that the skills to win are learned in the gym much moreso than at the work bench. If a kid plays baseball, a high-end bat won’t help him hit better until he learns the fundamentals of hitting. The same logic is why I’d strongly suggest going to Laser Cut Planes first, and consider Freedom Flight after some skills are in place.

It is a shame, that in a world of RC drones, this appears to be a dying hobby. I’ve never seen a brick and mortar store that sells kits like these (and you can buy almost anything in nyc). There are probably students who could really master this hobby, but only get the opportunity to work at it from age 12-14.
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http://www.sppscio.com

kylg
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:05 am

Thank you (kinghong1970) for the advice on how to pre-order the 2018 model on freedom flight models.
Also, thank you (SPP sciO) for reminding me of laser cut planes as an option.
I visited laser cut plane's website and the "vanguard p-18" is very familiar to me because I have seen many people use it at competition.
I realize laser cut planes can be very competitive yet still be very affordable but I have some questions about this year's plane they have.
They call it "Fruit Bat" and list describe it as "for the 2018 rule". What rule are they talking about? Is it the scioly rule or some other model airplane competition? Does it take advantage of this year's specs and follow specifications?
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kinghong1970
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kinghong1970 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:09 am

kylg wrote:Thank you (kinghong1970) for the advice on how to pre-order the 2018 model on freedom flight models.
Also, thank you (SPP sciO) for reminding me of laser cut planes as an option.
I visited laser cut plane's website and the "vanguard p-18" is very familiar to me because I have seen many people use it at competition.
I realize laser cut planes can be very competitive yet still be very affordable but I have some questions about this year's plane they have.
They call it "Fruit Bat" and list describe it as "for the 2018 rule". What rule are they talking about? Is it the scioly rule or some other model airplane competition? Does it take advantage of this year's specs and follow specifications?


This year spec on plane is different from last years
So last year kit if you have is good for kids practice but will not qualify to this year spec

kylg
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:44 pm

Is there any experimentation on the design of the wright stuff planes? So far I've only seen one type of plane that generally flies good.
I am thinking of making a plane.
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retired1
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby retired1 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:39 pm

There has been all kinds of experimentation, mostly on wings, props and rubber.
The most common easy to build ha a single bend (V) . next are wings with a di hedral-2 bends. then there are poly hedral wings and some with a continuous bend. Then there are those with vertical winglets like newer airliners.
Wings have wash in and wash out-look it up.
The amount of curve in the wing spar varies- some use a lot and others use little.
Prop pitch needs to match the rubber size for optimum, depending on ceiling height.
Thus, there is all kinds of research to be done to build a competitive plane. There is a wealth of information on the internet.


In FL, the bottom 22 teams all get the same points-20-, so we see a fair amount of K-mart $4.95 slide it together planes. Occasionally, there is one that flies well, but those are using their own props and rubber.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:37 am

I was implying completely different design. I was wondering if there were any completely different and new designs that performed well enough to be mentioned. Not trimming overused designs.
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coachchuckaahs
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby coachchuckaahs » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:44 pm

Since the rules specify maximum span and chord for wing and tail, and you want to maximize lifting area while staying at minimum weight, there is not a lot of flexibility in the overall layout of the plane. The motorstick length, especially this year with small props, is more or less set by the rubber length. The tail moment is variable to a point, but impacts stability, duration, and weight.

That said, there have been, and continue to be, a variety of designs. As noted by retired1, the wing curvature, perhaps ideally an elliptical shape, can be simple to complex. There have been flat wings with tip plates, simple, and complex dihedrals. Same with stab, with tip plates or a central fin. Tip plates tilted or vertical.

But, within the given rules, you won't find a radically different planform.

Still, plenty of variables to experiment with. Some may include airfoil (thickness), the planform deviations already noted, rubber length (width), prop pitch, prop planform, prop construction (flaring, etc.), winding methods, torque at launch, tail moment, CG, wash-in/out of various panels, tail tilt, tail or rudder offset, wing post height, and many others. While from a distance the planes look similar within the given rules, the numerous variables can make or break a "similar" plane.

With all these variables, a deep and complete log book is one of the most critical elements of successful SO Wright Stuff.

Coach Chuck
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:04 pm

Yes, I was experimenting with airfoil but it is not worth the weight.
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retired1
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby retired1 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:14 am

These planes fly so slow that airfoil shape will end up with a 3 to 4 % curve in the wing. You might call it an under camber. I think that all of the kit makers just use a constant thickness of the balsa for the wing. For the serious competitors, You will use mylar rather than balsa. Almost as good would be a really thin plastic such as that sold by laser cut planes. For my 2 cents, the produce bags at Wall Mart will work quite well and is a lot cheaper. (free)
Freedom Flight kit is a bit expensive, but the balsa is normally excellent as is the instructions for building and for flying.

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby coachchuckaahs » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:58 pm

It appears that the question of "Black Marker" has been addressed in an FAQ (see long discussion on first page of this thread).

Bottom line, (sans black tissue), if you choose to go the Black Marker route, it must be from a Marker, and not sprayed on. I'm going to assume that the same interpretation will apply to Heli's.

Coach Chuck

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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:21 pm

Technically, a marker is basically a well for ink that is directed to a sponge-like tip that is conical. The application markings of a marker would differ based on the brand and size. The general definition of a marker is: "a felt tip pen with a wide tip". The general definition of a pen is also: "an instrument for writing or drawing with ink". The general definition of felt is: "a kind of cloth made by rolling and pressing wool or another suitable textile accompanied by the application of moisture or heat, which causes the constituent fibers to mat together to create a smooth surface.". That does not specify the pigment used, the casing of the marker, or the material of the felt. A marker, essentially, is anything that can apply pigment of some kind via felt, so packed fibers that are smooth. So... I would be able to squeeze marker pigment out, mix it with some liquid to reduce the concentration of pigment and density, refill the marker's spongy inkwell with the much lighter solution, and proceed to color in the wing panel. If I wanted, I could altogether remove the entire marker, concoct the light pigment, dip a little sewing felt in the solution and apply the pigment onto the mylar. It would be virtually impossible to discern whether the pigment was applied via commercial marker or "homemade" marker.
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby Froggie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:38 pm

kylg wrote:Technically, a marker is basically a well for ink that is directed to a sponge-like tip that is conical. The application markings of a marker would differ based on the brand and size. The general definition of a marker is: "a felt tip pen with a wide tip". The general definition of a pen is also: "an instrument for writing or drawing with ink". The general definition of felt is: "a kind of cloth made by rolling and pressing wool or another suitable textile accompanied by the application of moisture or heat, which causes the constituent fibers to mat together to create a smooth surface.". That does not specify the pigment used, the casing of the marker, or the material of the felt. A marker, essentially, is anything that can apply pigment of some kind via felt, so packed fibers that are smooth. So... I would be able to squeeze marker pigment out, mix it with some liquid to reduce the concentration of pigment and density, refill the marker's spongy inkwell with the much lighter solution, and proceed to color in the wing panel. If I wanted, I could altogether remove the entire marker, concoct the light pigment, dip a little sewing felt in the solution and apply the pigment onto the mylar. It would be virtually impossible to discern whether the pigment was applied via commercial marker or "homemade" marker.

You could also take the ink in a spray bottle, and put it in an empty marker.
"A lot of people have quotes in their signature. Maybe I should have a quote in my signature. "
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby kylg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:44 am

Do not do what I suggested, I flushed an old dried out sharpie inkwell with acetone and kept it in a container to wait for the acetone to evaporate, the solution melted through and got my hands stained for days. When I tried to apply the solution by putting it back into the marker, it would not stay on the film as it was too diluted(formed drops and rolled off). Using raw marker is the fastest and easiest way, considering how I had to use 2.3 grams of ballast to meet the minimum weight requirement, 0.1 g of ink isn't a big deal.
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retired1
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Re: Wright Stuff B

Postby retired1 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:32 am

Complete FF kit for half price plus shipping.
For personal reasons, I can not use it.


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