Experimental Design B/C

User avatar
bromothymol
Member
Member
Posts: 14
Joined: January 27th, 2019, 4:48 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Location: WWPHSS

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby bromothymol » February 6th, 2019, 7:39 pm

EmiliaM wrote:So I just came across an experiment, and have had similar ones in the past, using 4 different types of materials where the topic is absorbency. We had limited measuring devices: only the stopwatch and ruler we can use in competitions. My initial thoughts were doing something like porosity vs amount of water absorbed, or density vs amount of water absorbed. However there would be no way to measure porosity and density with the experiment given, so I would do something for the IV like: low density, medium density, and high density, and the experiment would use a bar graph. Is this even allowed since we couldn’t measure density and only used qualititative observations to determine this? Also what would the SOC be? Any ideas on this, and also for a better experiment idea with this topic?


hmm... I've seen prompts like these and sometimes there's just no way around using qualitative levels for the IV. there shouldn't be any points taken off for having a bar graph since the rubric calls for "appropriate type of graph used", though you'd probably lose points in the "IV operationally defined" criterion.

I personally wouldn't use density or porosity as independent variables since they're more difficult to estimate qualitatively. it might be more suitable to use thickness of the material or just use one material altogether and simply vary its area/size quantitatively.

my teammates and I usually refer to the extreme minimum IV level when it doesn't make any logical sense to have a SOC of 0, otherwise we just use a zero level. reasoning is usually something along the lines of it being a baseline level to compare with future levels that are manipulated, so in your case, I'd go with the lowest density material.

as for other experiment ideas:
> time taken a single drop of water to absorb into different materials. time is probably more easy to measure in these types of experiments since measuring the amount of water absorbed can be difficult when the water makes a huge blob :^)
> something relating to length/surface area of the material and time to absorb completely? this one might be a stretch for relating to absorbency but on the plus side both the IV and DV would be able to be measured quantitatively.

Henlo
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: February 6th, 2019, 7:52 pm

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Henlo » February 6th, 2019, 7:55 pm

Oh... I placed at nats in this event.

EmiliaM
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2019, 4:23 pm
Division: C
State: IL

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby EmiliaM » February 7th, 2019, 4:49 am

bromothymol wrote:
EmiliaM wrote:So I just came across an experiment, and have had similar ones in the past, using 4 different types of materials where the topic is absorbency. We had limited measuring devices: only the stopwatch and ruler we can use in competitions. My initial thoughts were doing something like porosity vs amount of water absorbed, or density vs amount of water absorbed. However there would be no way to measure porosity and density with the experiment given, so I would do something for the IV like: low density, medium density, and high density, and the experiment would use a bar graph. Is this even allowed since we couldn’t measure density and only used qualititative observations to determine this? Also what would the SOC be? Any ideas on this, and also for a better experiment idea with this topic?


hmm... I've seen prompts like these and sometimes there's just no way around using qualitative levels for the IV. there shouldn't be any points taken off for having a bar graph since the rubric calls for "appropriate type of graph used", though you'd probably lose points in the "IV operationally defined" criterion.

I personally wouldn't use density or porosity as independent variables since they're more difficult to estimate qualitatively. it might be more suitable to use thickness of the material or just use one material altogether and simply vary its area/size quantitatively.

my teammates and I usually refer to the extreme minimum IV level when it doesn't make any logical sense to have a SOC of 0, otherwise we just use a zero level. reasoning is usually something along the lines of it being a baseline level to compare with future levels that are manipulated, so in your case, I'd go with the lowest density material.

as for other experiment ideas:
> time taken a single drop of water to absorb into different materials. time is probably more easy to measure in these types of experiments since measuring the amount of water absorbed can be difficult when the water makes a huge blob :^)
> something relating to length/surface area of the material and time to absorb completely? this one might be a stretch for relating to absorbency but on the plus side both the IV and DV would be able to be measured quantitatively.


Thank you so much!!
NT 2021

satvik03
Member
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: January 7th, 2019, 2:25 pm
Division: B
State: NJ

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby satvik03 » February 19th, 2019, 6:21 pm

EmiliaM wrote:So I just came across an experiment, and have had similar ones in the past, using 4 different types of materials where the topic is absorbency. We had limited measuring devices: only the stopwatch and ruler we can use in competitions. My initial thoughts were doing something like porosity vs amount of water absorbed, or density vs amount of water absorbed. However there would be no way to measure porosity and density with the experiment given, so I would do something for the IV like: low density, medium density, and high density, and the experiment would use a bar graph. Is this even allowed since we couldn’t measure density and only used qualititative observations to determine this? Also what would the SOC be? Any ideas on this, and also for a better experiment idea with this topic?


I would make the dependent variable amount of water absorbed, for sure. The Independent variable could be something qualitative like material, but you would have rising levels of density.
Community 2018-2019
2018-2019 Events:
LISO/Rustin/Regs/Garnet/Cornell/States/Nats!
Thermo: 1/1/x/x/2/5/12
Circuit: 2/3/x/4/10/1/11
Experimental Design: 2/1/1/10/5/1/13
2018-2019 Medal Count: 15
National "What Are You Trying To Tell Me" Champion! (lol)

expdez507
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 9:37 am

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby expdez507 » February 22nd, 2019, 9:40 am

How does the polarity of salt dissolved in water change if the concentration of salt increases? *in context of experimental prompt regarding properties of better (more specifically paper towel chromatography)

TheWood
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: February 20th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Division: C
State: GA

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby TheWood » March 22nd, 2019, 9:33 am

Does anyone actually know the rules regarding counts? For example, if I was measuring the period of a spring, and I timed five iterations of the spring (a unit that would be considered “count”) as maybe 1.56 seconds, what would I report as the average time for a period? 0.3? 0.31?0.312?
Brookwood High School (Head Officer)

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 356
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby nicholasmaurer » March 22nd, 2019, 4:53 pm

TheWood wrote:Does anyone actually know the rules regarding counts? For example, if I was measuring the period of a spring, and I timed five iterations of the spring (a unit that would be considered “count”) as maybe 1.56 seconds, what would I report as the average time for a period? 0.3? 0.31?0.312?


I would argue that finding the average is a calculation done to the data, therefore it is based upon the significant figures of the input(s). In your example, the only input would be 1.56, which has three significant figures. Thus the average should as well.
Assistant Coach and Alumni ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

terence.tan
Member
Member
Posts: 149
Joined: September 17th, 2017, 10:40 am
Division: C
State: NY

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby terence.tan » March 22nd, 2019, 6:39 pm

nicholasmaurer wrote:
TheWood wrote:Does anyone actually know the rules regarding counts? For example, if I was measuring the period of a spring, and I timed five iterations of the spring (a unit that would be considered “count”) as maybe 1.56 seconds, what would I report as the average time for a period? 0.3? 0.31?0.312?


I would argue that finding the average is a calculation done to the data, therefore it is based upon the significant figures of the input(s). In your example, the only input would be 1.56, which has three significant figures. Thus the average should as well.


Lets say that your data was:
IV1: 6.54s,6.98s,7.01s
IV2:8.97s,8.56s,9.13s
IV3:11.56s,11.95s,11.14s
the signicant figures used in IV3 is 3, while IV1 an IV2 uses 3 significant figures, is this alright? There is nothing I can do about it because that is just what my stop watch tells me. Would I add an extra 0 for IV1 and IV2 just so all trials for all IV would use the same amount of significant figures or just leave it as is?
2017 events: Electric Vehicle, Game On, Robot Arm
2018 events: Mouse Trap Vehicle, Game On, Mission Possible, Experimental Design, Duct Tape Challenge
2019 events: Mouse Trap Vehicle, Sounds of Music, Mission Possible, Experimental Design, Wright Stuff, WIDI

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 356
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby nicholasmaurer » March 23rd, 2019, 1:51 pm

terence.tan wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
TheWood wrote:Does anyone actually know the rules regarding counts? For example, if I was measuring the period of a spring, and I timed five iterations of the spring (a unit that would be considered “count”) as maybe 1.56 seconds, what would I report as the average time for a period? 0.3? 0.31?0.312?


I would argue that finding the average is a calculation done to the data, therefore it is based upon the significant figures of the input(s). In your example, the only input would be 1.56, which has three significant figures. Thus the average should as well.


Lets say that your data was:
IV1: 6.54s,6.98s,7.01s
IV2:8.97s,8.56s,9.13s
IV3:11.56s,11.95s,11.14s
the signicant figures used in IV3 is 3, while IV1 an IV2 uses 3 significant figures, is this alright? There is nothing I can do about it because that is just what my stop watch tells me. Would I add an extra 0 for IV1 and IV2 just so all trials for all IV would use the same amount of significant figures or just leave it as is?


I think you mean to say IV3 has four significant figures, while IV1 and IV2 have three. You should NOT add extra significant figures to your raw data for IV1 and IV2 - your instrument does not report time to that level of precision. You would leave your data as reported. If you performed calculations using IV3, they would have an additional significant figure as compared to calculations done with IV1 or IV2.
Assistant Coach and Alumni ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

TheWood
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: February 20th, 2019, 2:30 pm
Division: C
State: GA

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby TheWood » March 24th, 2019, 7:18 pm

How would you indicate one sig fig for zero? 0 or 0.?
Brookwood High School (Head Officer)

wec01
Member
Member
Posts: 184
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
Division: Grad
State: VA

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby wec01 » March 25th, 2019, 5:57 am

TheWood wrote:How would you indicate one sig fig for zero? 0 or 0.?

I believe zero always has 0 sig figs no matter how you write it, so I don't think it makes a difference if you put a decimal or not.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

gurumurthys
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: April 7th, 2019, 1:35 pm

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby gurumurthys » April 7th, 2019, 1:39 pm

Hi

I have a question regarding using additional sheets for experimental design B. Can students use additional sheets for writing their answers or should they stick with the space available in the reporting packet.

thanks
Guru

User avatar
dxu46
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 776
Joined: April 11th, 2017, 6:55 pm
Division: C
State: MO

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » April 7th, 2019, 1:49 pm

gurumurthys wrote:Hi

I have a question regarding using additional sheets for experimental design B. Can students use additional sheets for writing their answers or should they stick with the space available in the reporting packet.

thanks
Guru

Depends on the event supervisor. Some tournaments I've been to are really strict about writing in the same space, but at regionals we were allowed to use other sheets of paper because the formatting of the packet didn't suit us.

WendysLvr
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: February 24th, 2019, 9:28 am

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby WendysLvr » April 9th, 2019, 1:57 pm

gurumurthys wrote:Hi

I have a question regarding using additional sheets for experimental design B. Can students use additional sheets for writing their answers or should they stick with the space available in the reporting packet.

thanks
Guru


The whole purpose of this document https://www.soinc.org/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/2019_Experimental_Design_Report_Form_101018.pdf is for the write up. It is supposed to be printed single sided and the back used if you run out of room.

jennarholt
Member
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: December 31st, 2018, 7:57 pm
Division: B
State: NC

Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby jennarholt » April 22nd, 2019, 7:38 am

Okay, so can anyone help? I just got thrown into this event, and our competition is this Saturday. What am I doing, because honest to god I'm confused? (Div B)
seriously i only care about fossils it's kinda sad


Return to “Lab Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests