Experimental Design B/C

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Unome » September 17th, 2018, 5:00 pm

kate! wrote:
Jesusfather123 wrote:Hi,
Can someone explain the new rule for ED this yr? Does it mean , the whole team have to perform the experiment and then move on the whole writing process?
Thanks!

In the first twenty minutes, the only thing you can do is do the experiment and write the basics (the first half of the rubric.) This gives your whole team more time to focus on the actual experiment rather than trying to write down errors and observations. In the next twenty minutes, you'll have finished the experiment, so it'll be much easier to now focus solely on analysis. This is also to prevent people from making up data and forces you to perform a thorough experiment. It depends on how you split up the rubric, but it should be mostly the same as last year, except for the fact that you now have designated times for doing the experiment and analyzing it.

This is almost certainly the main reason for the change.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby TheChiScientist » September 17th, 2018, 5:09 pm

Unome wrote:
kate! wrote:
Jesusfather123 wrote:Hi,
Can someone explain the new rule for ED this yr? Does it mean , the whole team have to perform the experiment and then move on the whole writing process?
Thanks!

In the first twenty minutes, the only thing you can do is do the experiment and write the basics (the first half of the rubric.) This gives your whole team more time to focus on the actual experiment rather than trying to write down errors and observations. In the next twenty minutes, you'll have finished the experiment, so it'll be much easier to now focus solely on analysis. This is also to prevent people from making up data and forces you to perform a thorough experiment. It depends on how you split up the rubric, but it should be mostly the same as last year, except for the fact that you now have designated times for doing the experiment and analyzing it.

This is almost certainly the main reason for the change.

It is but this is most certainly annoying for teams that worked with legitimate data (aka my team) and started immediately on analysis as soon as results occurred. It takes me about 15 mins to make a "perfect analysis" so it will be a painful process. :x This certainly will change the method of operations for many top-tier teams.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » September 17th, 2018, 7:26 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
Unome wrote:
kate! wrote:In the first twenty minutes, the only thing you can do is do the experiment and write the basics (the first half of the rubric.) This gives your whole team more time to focus on the actual experiment rather than trying to write down errors and observations. In the next twenty minutes, you'll have finished the experiment, so it'll be much easier to now focus solely on analysis. This is also to prevent people from making up data and forces you to perform a thorough experiment. It depends on how you split up the rubric, but it should be mostly the same as last year, except for the fact that you now have designated times for doing the experiment and analyzing it.

This is almost certainly the main reason for the change.

It is but this is most certainly annoying for teams that worked with legitimate data (aka my team) and started immediately on analysis as soon as results occurred. It takes me about 15 mins to make a "perfect analysis" so it will be a painful process. :x This certainly will change the method of operations for many top-tier teams.

The new format seems to emphasize teamwork as the only way to get everything done is to work as a very solid team and communicate well.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby OrigamiPlanet » September 19th, 2018, 8:35 pm

dxu46 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
Unome wrote:This is almost certainly the main reason for the change.

It is but this is most certainly annoying for teams that worked with legitimate data (aka my team) and started immediately on analysis as soon as results occurred. It takes me about 15 mins to make a "perfect analysis" so it will be a painful process. :x This certainly will change the method of operations for many top-tier teams.

The new format seems to emphasize teamwork as the only way to get everything done is to work as a very solid team and communicate well.


While I certainly do enjoy that idea of teamwork, the only reason our team placed consistently was the independent roles each of us assumed and practiced; now with the new time impediment, this may pose a new challenge in keeping up with the scores now, but then again if other teams did the same they also face the same trouble. Regardless, I would still redistribute (or distribute if you're new) the roles again to try and fit the time management. Just my thought, so take it with a grain of salt ;)
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Jacobi » September 20th, 2018, 7:07 am

OrigamiPlanet wrote:
dxu46 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:It is but this is most certainly annoying for teams that worked with legitimate data (aka my team) and started immediately on analysis as soon as results occurred. It takes me about 15 mins to make a "perfect analysis" so it will be a painful process. :x This certainly will change the method of operations for many top-tier teams.

The new format seems to emphasize teamwork as the only way to get everything done is to work as a very solid team and communicate well.


While I certainly do enjoy that idea of teamwork, the only reason our team placed consistently was the independent roles each of us assumed and practiced; now with the new time impediment, this may pose a new challenge in keeping up with the scores now, but then again if other teams did the same they also face the same trouble. Regardless, I would still redistribute (or distribute if you're new) the roles again to try and fit the time management. Just my thought, so take it with a grain of salt ;)


It may not have much merit, but here is my XPD grouping list:

Writer (52 points)
Manages Papers, A, B, C, D, E, M, Assists Others

Data Collector (36 points)
Runs Experiment, G, H, I, J

Analyzer (22 points)
Runs Experiment, F, K, L

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » September 20th, 2018, 4:05 pm

Jacobi wrote:
OrigamiPlanet wrote:
dxu46 wrote:The new format seems to emphasize teamwork as the only way to get everything done is to work as a very solid team and communicate well.


While I certainly do enjoy that idea of teamwork, the only reason our team placed consistently was the independent roles each of us assumed and practiced; now with the new time impediment, this may pose a new challenge in keeping up with the scores now, but then again if other teams did the same they also face the same trouble. Regardless, I would still redistribute (or distribute if you're new) the roles again to try and fit the time management. Just my thought, so take it with a grain of salt ;)


It may not have much merit, but here is my XPD grouping list:

Writer (52 points)
Manages Papers, A, B, C, D, E, M, Assists Others

Data Collector (36 points)
Runs Experiment, G, H, I, J

Analyzer (22 points)
Runs Experiment, F, K, L

That's actually a solid breakdown!
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby TheChiScientist » September 20th, 2018, 4:47 pm

dxu46 wrote:
Jacobi wrote:
OrigamiPlanet wrote:
While I certainly do enjoy that idea of teamwork, the only reason our team placed consistently was the independent roles each of us assumed and practiced; now with the new time impediment, this may pose a new challenge in keeping up with the scores now, but then again if other teams did the same they also face the same trouble. Regardless, I would still redistribute (or distribute if you're new) the roles again to try and fit the time management. Just my thought, so take it with a grain of salt ;)


It may not have much merit, but here is my XPD grouping list:

Writer (52 points)
Manages Papers, A, B, C, D, E, M, Assists Others

Data Collector (36 points)
Runs Experiment, G, H, I, J

Analyzer (22 points)
Runs Experiment, F, K, L

That's actually a solid breakdown!

That's actually quite identical to our format and we missed medaling at ISO state by a whisker. :(
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Jacobi » September 20th, 2018, 5:01 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
dxu46 wrote:
Jacobi wrote:
It may not have much merit, but here is my XPD grouping list:

Writer (52 points)
Manages Papers, A, B, C, D, E, M, Assists Others

Data Collector (36 points)
Runs Experiment, G, H, I, J

Analyzer (22 points)
Runs Experiment, F, K, L

That's actually a solid breakdown!

That's actually quite identical to our format and we missed medaling at ISO state by a whisker. :(

Thanks to both of you for your feedback.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Jacobi » September 23rd, 2018, 10:04 am

New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » September 23rd, 2018, 10:52 am

Jacobi wrote:New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

I don't think they expect you to calculate a correlation coefficient by hand. You can just write "obtained by calculator" or something.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » September 23rd, 2018, 1:06 pm

Jacobi wrote:New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

You don't need sophisticated statistics like that, the most they'd probably expect is standard deviation.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby OrigamiPlanet » September 23rd, 2018, 8:09 pm

dxu46 wrote:
Jacobi wrote:New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

You don't need sophisticated statistics like that, the most they'd probably expect is standard deviation.


Two things since I'm still trying to understand the new rubric for statistics:
1. Is there a certain number of statistics we should aim calculating?
2. Must every calculation for every statistic be shown?

I'm trying to draft a team layout based upon like certain aspects of each part, so far (if you want to try it go ahead!)

1. The logician (A, B, C, D, H, I, also comes up with topic and deals with paperwork).
2. The analytic (E, J, L, runs and cleans up experiment).
3. The data collector (mix of both-ish: F, G, K, M, runs the experiment and helps with topic).
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby dxu46 » September 23rd, 2018, 8:13 pm

OrigamiPlanet wrote:
dxu46 wrote:
Jacobi wrote:New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

You don't need sophisticated statistics like that, the most they'd probably expect is standard deviation.


Two things since I'm still trying to understand the new rubric for statistics:
1. Is there a certain number of statistics we should aim calculating?
2. Must every calculation for every statistic be shown?

Shoot, I didn't realize that you needed sample calcs. If so, then (2) yes. For #1, probably just as much as you think you need.
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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Jacobi » September 24th, 2018, 8:26 am

OrigamiPlanet wrote:
dxu46 wrote:
Jacobi wrote:New Question:

On the Statistics section, if we are calculating something advanced like a correlation coefficient, do we have to show all of our steps?

You don't need sophisticated statistics like that, the most they'd probably expect is standard deviation.


Two things since I'm still trying to understand the new rubric for statistics:
1. Is there a certain number of statistics we should aim calculating?
2. Must every calculation for every statistic be shown?

I'm trying to draft a team layout based upon like certain aspects of each part, so far (if you want to try it go ahead!)

1. The logician (A, B, C, D, H, I, also comes up with topic and deals with paperwork).
2. The analytic (E, J, L, runs and cleans up experiment).
3. The data collector (mix of both-ish: F, G, K, M, runs the experiment and helps with topic).


On your team layout, see the one I posted earlier.
1. I think that the person who does the data crunch should run the experiment, since it is the experiment runners that collect all data. The person who does A-D should be focusing on the writing, not getting data.
2. In general, I would try to create a system that minimizes how much team members need to reference each other's work. Communication takes time.
3. That being said, having an experiment runner do part E is something that I hadn't thought of. It could work. However, the writer needs something to do, and procedure is another section that they can knock out.

Good starter, but you need to see which groupings work best for your team before you set that in stone.

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Re: Experimental Design B/C

Postby Jesusfather123 » September 25th, 2018, 4:00 pm

All, thank you very much for yr guidance!! It really helps.


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