Mystery Architecture B

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Cow481
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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby Cow481 » December 3rd, 2018, 5:58 am

heiber wrote:
Cow481 wrote:I think what defines an arch would be that there are two “areas” of suport with something connecting them and it can not touch the ground between two points that the event supervisor gives.


That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.

But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between
2017 Events: JV Tower, JV Bottle Rocket
2018 Events: Tower, JV Herpetology, JV Dynamic Planet
2019 Events: Boomilever, Elastic Launched Glider, Mystery Architecture

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Cow481
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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby Cow481 » December 3rd, 2018, 6:00 am

Cow481 wrote:
heiber wrote:
Cow481 wrote:I think what defines an arch would be that there are two “areas” of suport with something connecting them and it can not touch the ground between two points that the event supervisor gives.


That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.

But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between

Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.
2017 Events: JV Tower, JV Bottle Rocket
2018 Events: Tower, JV Herpetology, JV Dynamic Planet
2019 Events: Boomilever, Elastic Launched Glider, Mystery Architecture

Medals
Invitationals: 4
Regionals: 2
States: 1
Nationals: 1 :D

shri
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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby shri » December 3rd, 2018, 7:55 am

Cow481 wrote:
Cow481 wrote:
heiber wrote:
That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.

But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between

Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.


Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.

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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby heiber » December 3rd, 2018, 8:05 am

shri wrote:
Cow481 wrote:
Cow481 wrote:But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between

Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.


Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.


What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".

shri
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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby shri » December 3rd, 2018, 9:11 am

heiber wrote:
shri wrote:
Cow481 wrote:Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.


Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.


What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".


Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?

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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby Cow481 » December 3rd, 2018, 10:18 am

shri wrote:
heiber wrote:
shri wrote:
Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.


What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".


Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?

My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one
2017 Events: JV Tower, JV Bottle Rocket
2018 Events: Tower, JV Herpetology, JV Dynamic Planet
2019 Events: Boomilever, Elastic Launched Glider, Mystery Architecture

Medals
Invitationals: 4
Regionals: 2
States: 1
Nationals: 1 :D

shri
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Joined: November 10th, 2018, 7:38 pm
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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Postby shri » December 3rd, 2018, 10:22 am

Cow481 wrote:
shri wrote:
heiber wrote:
What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".


Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?

My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one


That is a good thought! It would be easier to enforce a minimum width at a specified height, but then have no restriction beyond that. This does mean that you could build a tower on top of an arch, and that is OK.


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