Codebusters C

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby Name » January 13th, 2019, 4:26 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:Anyone here wants access to an xenocrypt test urgently? I plan to complete a SciOly Codebusters test of pure xenocrypts seeing how difficult they are to find but I don't want to release it without a large number of ciphers if there isn't a large demand.


I'll take it but xenocrypts arnt THAT rare unlike something like RSA where I've seen it used exactly once. If anything get a teammate to search up Spanish quotes and use a monoalpabetic encoder
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Hoping to do Astro, Code, and Ornith next year
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mit- 1st code, 3rd fermi
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » January 13th, 2019, 4:34 pm

Name wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:Anyone here wants access to an xenocrypt test urgently? I plan to complete a SciOly Codebusters test of pure xenocrypts seeing how difficult they are to find but I don't want to release it without a large number of ciphers if there isn't a large demand.


I'll take it but xenocrypts arnt THAT rare unlike something like RSA where I've seen it used exactly once. If anything get a teammate to search up Spanish quotes and use a monoalpabetic encoder

Agreed, xenocrypts aren't that hard to find, especially if you speak Spanish (which I don't)

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby 0ddrenaline » January 14th, 2019, 3:06 pm

I need to write my second test for an upcoming competition. Last time I created a different table for each word, with a different cell for the encrypted and decrypted letters. Then I needed to type each letter individually in each cell. This is very tedious and prone to mistakes. Any tips?

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby TheChiScientist » January 14th, 2019, 3:09 pm

0ddrenaline wrote:I need to write my second test for an upcoming competition. Last time I created a different table for each word, with a different cell for the encrypted and decrypted letters. Then I needed to type each letter individually in each cell. This is very tedious and prone to mistakes. Any tips?

Make the table with the alphabet in alphabetical order and then just copy paste for all your tables. Then use a word counter to sorta all your letters and fill in accordingly. Send me a PM if you want to see an example of what I have with my Xenocrypt test. :D
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby GoldenKnight1 » January 14th, 2019, 3:16 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
0ddrenaline wrote:I need to write my second test for an upcoming competition. Last time I created a different table for each word, with a different cell for the encrypted and decrypted letters. Then I needed to type each letter individually in each cell. This is very tedious and prone to mistakes. Any tips?

Make the table with the alphabet in alphabetical order and then just copy paste for all your tables. Then use a word counter to sorta all your letters and fill in accordingly. Send me a PM if you want to see an example of what I have with my Xenocrypt test. :D


Or use the Test Generator from NCSO that is included on the National Website.

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby TheChiScientist » January 14th, 2019, 3:19 pm

GoldenKnight1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
0ddrenaline wrote:I need to write my second test for an upcoming competition. Last time I created a different table for each word, with a different cell for the encrypted and decrypted letters. Then I needed to type each letter individually in each cell. This is very tedious and prone to mistakes. Any tips?

Make the table with the alphabet in alphabetical order and then just copy paste for all your tables. Then use a word counter to sorta all your letters and fill in accordingly. Send me a PM if you want to see an example of what I have with my Xenocrypt test. :D


Or use the Test Generator from NCSO that is included on the National Website.

Oh, butterfly... Yea. No. Ignore what I just said. This is WAY better! Thx GoldenKnight! :)
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby Saucycedo » January 14th, 2019, 4:57 pm

Any tips on solving patristocrats faster?

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby 0ddrenaline » January 14th, 2019, 5:39 pm

GoldenKnight1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
0ddrenaline wrote:I need to write my second test for an upcoming competition. Last time I created a different table for each word, with a different cell for the encrypted and decrypted letters. Then I needed to type each letter individually in each cell. This is very tedious and prone to mistakes. Any tips?

Make the table with the alphabet in alphabetical order and then just copy paste for all your tables. Then use a word counter to sorta all your letters and fill in accordingly. Send me a PM if you want to see an example of what I have with my Xenocrypt test. :D


Or use the Test Generator from NCSO that is included on the National Website.

Wow, I should have known to check there. Thanks!

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby jimmy-bond » January 19th, 2019, 5:49 pm

At a recent competition, there was a Baconian alphabet problem. Instead of A's and B's, they used the symbols <, >, [, ], {, }, (, and ). No hint was provided, and there were 52 letters in total. There were no repeating sets of symbols. How would someone tackle this problem?
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby TheChiScientist » January 19th, 2019, 6:00 pm

jimmy-bond wrote:At a recent competition, there was a Baconian alphabet problem. Instead of A's and B's, they used the symbols <, >, [, ], {, }, (, and ). No hint was provided, and there were 52 letters in total. There were no repeating sets of symbols. How would someone tackle this problem?

I would attempt to see how grouping would create a logical response. On a test I took they used a Baconian with odd and even numbers as A and B. I suspect that in this case, A is most likely <, [, { and B is most likely >, ], }. If I could see how the test was formatted I could test this theory out but in a nutshell, you need to find patterns in Baconian ciphers. Also, don't forget to bunch everything into fives.
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby Name » January 19th, 2019, 6:31 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
jimmy-bond wrote:At a recent competition, there was a Baconian alphabet problem. Instead of A's and B's, they used the symbols <, >, [, ], {, }, (, and ). No hint was provided, and there were 52 letters in total. There were no repeating sets of symbols. How would someone tackle this problem?

I would attempt to see how grouping would create a logical response. On a test I took they used a Baconian with odd and even numbers as A and B. I suspect that in this case, A is most likely <, [, { and B is most likely >, ], }. If I could see how the test was formatted I could test this theory out but in a nutshell, you need to find patterns in Baconian ciphers. Also, don't forget to bunch everything into fives.


Adding on: with bacon the first thing to always do is to separate the groups of 5 by drawing a line between them or something. After that look for a group of 5 that are similar that fit in A or E
So like )>}]} are all similar and fit in the AAAAA for the letter A and those 5 would likely be A
Or (<}([ fit in the AABAA for E
I guess they could be annoying and set them randomly to A and B where there is no pattern. In this case you could count the frequency of each symbol for part of the cipher. Assuming they distribute each A and B equally among the symbols, A appears more frequently then B and you can assume the symbols that appear frequently are the A
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cornell- 1st fermi
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby jimmy-bond » January 19th, 2019, 7:05 pm

Name wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
jimmy-bond wrote:At a recent competition, there was a Baconian alphabet problem. Instead of A's and B's, they used the symbols <, >, [, ], {, }, (, and ). No hint was provided, and there were 52 letters in total. There were no repeating sets of symbols. How would someone tackle this problem?

I would attempt to see how grouping would create a logical response. On a test I took they used a Baconian with odd and even numbers as A and B. I suspect that in this case, A is most likely <, [, { and B is most likely >, ], }. If I could see how the test was formatted I could test this theory out but in a nutshell, you need to find patterns in Baconian ciphers. Also, don't forget to bunch everything into fives.


Adding on: with bacon the first thing to always do is to separate the groups of 5 by drawing a line between them or something. After that look for a group of 5 that are similar that fit in A or E
So like )>}]} are all similar and fit in the AAAAA for the letter A and those 5 would likely be A
Or (<}([ fit in the AABAA for E
I guess they could be annoying and set them randomly to A and B where there is no pattern. In this case you could count the frequency of each symbol for part of the cipher. Assuming they distribute each A and B equally among the symbols, A appears more frequently then B and you can assume the symbols that appear frequently are the A

That was the first thing I tried, but I got 4 consonants for the first 4 letters so I stopped there. I also tried the possible combinations of groups designated as certain letters (ex. < and > are A, ( and ) are A, [ and ] are B, and { and } are B). I tried a few combinations but every time, I would get three consecutive consonants at the beginning. So my guess is they were being annoying.

I thought about the second strategy you mentioned (frequency) but quickly dismissed it. All symbols were represented relatively equally (at least it seemed so, as I did not bother to count it) so it would be strenuous to guess and test.
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby Name » January 19th, 2019, 7:40 pm

jimmy-bond wrote:That was the first thing I tried, but I got 4 consonants for the first 4 letters so I stopped there. I also tried the possible combinations of groups designated as certain letters (ex. < and > are A, ( and ) are A, [ and ] are B, and { and } are B). I tried a few combinations but every time, I would get three consecutive consonants at the beginning. So my guess is they were being annoying.

I thought about the second strategy you mentioned (frequency) but quickly dismissed it. All symbols were represented relatively equally (at least it seemed so, as I did not bother to count it) so it would be strenuous to guess and test.


Ok so I just took a completly random quote and encrypted it with Bacon cipher (24 letter). Almost exactly 2/3 of the letters were As, so there should be a noticable difference between frequencies where a symbol that represents A appears twice as often. You probably don't need to count too many letters, maybe 5ish would be sufficent to get a good idea.
Also what compitition is this? Im kinda interested in what the actual question is.
SW 16-17 Syosset 18-21. Previous main events: Microbe, Invasive, Herp, Matsci, Fermi
Hoping to do Astro, Code, and Ornith next year
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mit- 1st code, 3rd fermi
cornell- 1st fermi
states- 1st fermi, 3rd astro, 3rd code
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Re: Codebusters C

Postby jimmy-bond » January 19th, 2019, 7:46 pm

Name wrote:
jimmy-bond wrote:That was the first thing I tried, but I got 4 consonants for the first 4 letters so I stopped there. I also tried the possible combinations of groups designated as certain letters (ex. < and > are A, ( and ) are A, [ and ] are B, and { and } are B). I tried a few combinations but every time, I would get three consecutive consonants at the beginning. So my guess is they were being annoying.

I thought about the second strategy you mentioned (frequency) but quickly dismissed it. All symbols were represented relatively equally (at least it seemed so, as I did not bother to count it) so it would be strenuous to guess and test.


Ok so I just took a completly random quote and encrypted it with Bacon cipher (24 letter). Almost exactly 2/3 of the letters were As, so there should be a noticable difference between frequencies where a symbol that represents A appears twice as often. You probably don't need to count too many letters, maybe 5ish would be sufficent to get a good idea.
Also what compitition is this? Im kinda interested in what the actual question is.

Pearl City High School Invitational, took place around 4 hours ago. I'll be getting my test on Tuesday and will post the question then if I remember, and if I get hold of the answer key, I'll post the answer
If life gives you melons, you're dyslexic.

Why can't dinosaurs ski? Because they're dead.

Cornell here we come!

2019 States
Code Busters(1), DD(1), FQ(2), Forensics(1), WQ(5)

2018 Nats
CriB(26), DP (11), FF(1), MM(14), P&P(6)

2017 Nats
CriB(36), DD(35), FF(2), MM(20)

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Re: Codebusters C

Postby jimmy-bond » January 22nd, 2019, 5:05 pm

I got my test back and realized that they encoded it using a 24-letter alphabet instead of 26 and I am now kicking myself, because the left symbols were A and right symbols were B, which is what I tried initially.
If life gives you melons, you're dyslexic.

Why can't dinosaurs ski? Because they're dead.

Cornell here we come!

2019 States
Code Busters(1), DD(1), FQ(2), Forensics(1), WQ(5)

2018 Nats
CriB(26), DP (11), FF(1), MM(14), P&P(6)

2017 Nats
CriB(36), DD(35), FF(2), MM(20)


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