Sounds of Music C

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markuswso17
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby markuswso17 » January 29th, 2019, 12:56 pm

hippo9 wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:So my partner and I have been using Sci Journal, and I agree with everyone who says average doesn’t really work for this event.

As someone earlier calculated, a single 0 moment can bring the pitch score down to 0. There’s really no way to circumvent this.

Even when placing the tuner next to our instrument, it still goes to zero sometimes. I honestly don’t know what do do anymore since invitationals is in 2 weeks and we can’t build a new instrument that fast. (Copper pipe xylophone)

Also, you can crop data out of the science journal recording, so if you let the ES know that, they'll most likely do that for you for all of the time's it dips to 0.

How can you crop out 0s? I don't see that feature anywhere.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby hippo9 » January 29th, 2019, 1:58 pm

markuswso17 wrote:
hippo9 wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:So my partner and I have been using Sci Journal, and I agree with everyone who says average doesn’t really work for this event.

As someone earlier calculated, a single 0 moment can bring the pitch score down to 0. There’s really no way to circumvent this.

Even when placing the tuner next to our instrument, it still goes to zero sometimes. I honestly don’t know what do do anymore since invitationals is in 2 weeks and we can’t build a new instrument that fast. (Copper pipe xylophone)

Also, you can crop data out of the science journal recording, so if you let the ES know that, they'll most likely do that for you for all of the time's it dips to 0.

How can you crop out 0s? I don't see that feature anywhere.

Not specifically 0s, but data in general. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure you can move the line the data starts from, but I'm not sure about 0s in the middle of the recording.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby Birdmusic » January 29th, 2019, 6:48 pm

hippo9 wrote:
markuswso17 wrote:
hippo9 wrote:Also, you can crop data out of the science journal recording, so if you let the ES know that, they'll most likely do that for you for all of the time's it dips to 0.

How can you crop out 0s? I don't see that feature anywhere.

Not specifically 0s, but data in general. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure you can move the line the data starts from, but I'm not sure about 0s in the middle of the recording.

Unfortunately my zeroes tend to be in the middle ;-;
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby TheSquaad » January 30th, 2019, 4:47 am

Birdmusic wrote:
hippo9 wrote:
markuswso17 wrote:How can you crop out 0s? I don't see that feature anywhere.

Not specifically 0s, but data in general. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure you can move the line the data starts from, but I'm not sure about 0s in the middle of the recording.

Unfortunately my zeroes tend to be in the middle ;-;


Google Sci Journal automatically produces an average of the entire recording session, so I find it very doubtful that any ES would go through the extra pain of splicing out the zeros (if that’s possible) when they already have a clear data point, especially considering how long sounds testing takes.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby trdd » January 30th, 2019, 10:30 am

TheSquaad wrote:
Birdmusic wrote:
hippo9 wrote:Not specifically 0s, but data in general. I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure you can move the line the data starts from, but I'm not sure about 0s in the middle of the recording.

Unfortunately my zeroes tend to be in the middle ;-;


Google Sci Journal automatically produces an average of the entire recording session, so I find it very doubtful that any ES would go through the extra pain of splicing out the zeros (if that’s possible) when they already have a clear data point, especially considering how long sounds testing takes.


You can always crop zeros in Google Sci Journal as long as they are BEFORE or AFTER the data but NOT in the middle. This is done by selecting the graph that you want to see. Then once the chart becomes visible as unique in the screen you click on the three dots and select the option to crop. Move the bars in the front or in the end to get the average. Once you click on the check mark it will save the cropped data with the new average. BUT IT WILL NOT TAKE AWAY zero's or higher overtones. Those will still be part of your average. The Event supervisor would have to record each note into a separate file because once you crop, it doesn't allow you to get the file back. Yes, this is tedious. ..and yes, this messes up those who build instruments with quick decays. Those with those instruments will have to find a way to hold the note without decay by maybe using two mallets and both hands and alternating quickly... or using a credit card as a string pick and vibrate it up and down quickly, etc.... I witnessed a team with a PVC tubulum hitting it with a sandal who was able to not get any zero's between the multiple hits.

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Feedback from an Event Supervisor

Postby trdd » January 30th, 2019, 11:10 am

I recently supervised a Sounds of Music Event and I want to provide some feedback to the students. First, I’m going to start with the biggest issue I saw.

AVERAGE PITCH…
When measuring the pitch I tried to abide by the rule as close as possible to what it says…
It says: "10/11/18 (Division C) 3.Part II.f.ii should read, edits in bold: Participants will play one pitch at a time, holding it for a duration of 5 seconds as indicated by signals from the event supervisor. For devices with a quick decay time, multiple attacks on the pitch are allowed (for example, striking a bar multiple times with a mallet or plucking a string). The pitch measurement will be the average value during the 5 seconds. Participants will wait until the supervisor records the measured pitch frequency and indicates that they may proceed before playing the next note in the sequence. (average replaces best)"
It clearly states that the participants need to HOLD each note for 5 seconds and that multiple attacks are allowed for quick decaying devices.
It also clearly states that the pitch measurement will be the AVERAGE value during the 5 seconds. So I had to do an average during those 5 seconds. I had each team play each note for about 5.5 to 6 seconds to allow a good continuous 5 seconds in there.
The problem then is that if a student plays a perfect pitch for note A4 at 440 Hz for only 1 second of the 5 seconds because he didn't want to do multiple attacks then for the next 4 seconds the pitch is zero, and the average value will be 1/5th of that 440Hz which will give a score of ZERO for that pitch because the average during the full 5 seconds will be way off from the target of 440Hz. If the student keeps doing that will all 8 notes, then the full pitch score will be ZERO. All that effort building your device to then get zero for the full pitch score! Sometimes I went as low as getting an average of 4 seconds to take away errors or zeros at the beginning or end of the note, but I couldn’t go lower than a 4 second range for the average. If they only held a note for one second they got zero. This might seem very unfair, but I wanted to go by the rules as written. So my advice to the students is to build the instrument to the rules and play it according to the rules.
I witnessed this with several teams even though I REMINDED them that multiple attacks are allowed and that they need to hold each note for a full 5 seconds. So they got zero points on the pitch. But even if the team did multiple attacks, they were erratic and all over the place. If the multiple attacks are not done properly, then the frequencies will have a lot of louder overtones; or zeros that also mess up the average frequency during the 5 seconds. This means that if students need to do multiple attacks they need to do them well so that NO higher frequencies show up as dominant or short pauses exist during their performance. If they are hitting a pipe, they probably need two rubber mallets and hit on the instrument softly at a nice steady rhythm in such a way that the next hit comes before any decay happens and still keep the fundamental note as the loudest even if that requires going down in volume. This may require up to 20 or 30 small hits during the 5 seconds. It is NOT impossible to do. There was one team with a tubulum type PVC organ that was able to achieve a more steady pitch even with multiple attacks from the sandal that they used. With that tubulum, there were no harmonics or zero pitch during each continuous holding of the note. There was also a team with a beautiful cello that was able to achieve a steady pitch by moving the bow back and forth in a steady way (with some minor dominant overtones, though). If it is a guitar or a harp, they need to get good at vibrating their fingers back and forth on that string to not let it decay or use a credit card as a pick in a more efficient manner, or use multiple fingers. As for wind instruments, well that's a little easier to maintain the pitch but they need to have enough air from the lungs during those 5 seconds and make sure not to go any harmonics or overtones louder than the fundamental and not pause to breathe air during those 5 seconds of play.

WHICH NOTE TO START…
The teams are required to tell me which note of the scale they are going to start and if they will be ascending or descending. The problem is that sometimes when I asked for the starting note they say something like "F"... ..and I immediately follow with "F-what? F2? F3? F4?" and they would reply with "I don't know. It’s note F" I can't be telling them on which octave they will start. It is THEIR instrument. So these students had to just pick a starting note and stick with it even if ALL of the notes are bad. So if they say F4, ascending but the instrument was really starting on F3, they also got ZERO no matter how perfect they were to the target frequencies of F3 to F4. So the students NEED TO KNOW THEIR NOTES and their scales!!!

NOTES OUT OF RANGE…
The rules say that all 8 notes need to be between F2 and F5 (including F2 and F5). I had teams that told me that their starting note is G5 or A5 ascending... That means that ALL of their notes fall out of the competition range and they also get a ZERO. I had these students who made really cool xylophone with wrenches but all notes were way higher than the competition range! So they also get a ZERO. I let them play, and I record everything, but the spreadsheet will still give them a zero. Actually the spreadsheet won't even allow me to put notes higher than a certain frequency. There was a team who did a nice flute and her average pitch was somewhat consistent but she started on Ab4 which meant that the last two notes of the scale: G5 and Ab5 where larger than F5 so the last two notes got a zero point automatically in the spreadsheet losing the points for those two notes. So make sure ALL of your notes fall within F2 and F5 inclusive.

THE LOG!!!!!
The log!!! The teams are required to submit a log that lists materials, has pictures, data points, and other requirements. (see Rules). The log is worth a total of 10 points. The team that achieved a 3rd place did nice on the average pitches and did REALLY good on the exam. But he DIDN'T bring the log. So he got zero out of ten points for that. Had he brought a perfect log, he would have taken over the first place. I asked EVERY team for the log. And some of them said: "What log?" including the 3rd place. The log is an easy 10 points! Neatness is not in the score. Some teams brought me logs that were hand written in a piece of paper. As long as it has the required info in a proper way, I awarded them the points. BRING THE LOG!! Don’t leave out those easy 10 points.

INSTRUMENT FIT AND FINISH
I saw a handful of beautifully made instruments. BUT craftsmanship; robust construction; beauty etc.. is NOWHERE in the score. So how beautiful they are is irrelevant. They just need to have the best average pitch to the note. I praised the teams that brought beautiful instruments but no extra points for that.

ONE INSTRUMENT NOT 8 INSTRUMENTS
If your instrument has multiple parts, make sure you can put them all together as one. If not, they would in theory count as multiple instruments. If you are bringing wine glasses, for example, make something to put them on. Whether it is a small table (that fits into the 60x60x100) as part of the instrument, or even a cardboard where you put all of the glasses on top of it and just secure the bases of the wine glasses with duct tape to the cardboard or to the small table. Whatever it takes to make it into “one instrument” and not 8 instruments. While I wasn’t too harsh on this and let them have 8 separate wine glasses without a construction violation, other event supervisors might not be as easy with the construction violations as I was. So make sure it is ONE INSTRUMENT even if it is held with duct tape.

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Re: Feedback from an Event Supervisor

Postby Birdmusic » January 30th, 2019, 5:38 pm

trdd wrote:...


Thank you for the advice! I will forward this to my partner, this is really helpful!
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby eagerlearner102 » February 3rd, 2019, 9:46 am

I haven't done Science Olympiad for a long time. Do any of you guys have any idea what the highest scores are on the tests (percentage wise)? I am not asking for any specific event.
I am asking this question because I took a Sounds of Music test and got 53% :(. cThankfully, my competition day is on March 2nd.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby scienceisfunalil » February 3rd, 2019, 9:55 am

eagerlearner102 wrote:I haven't done Science Olympiad for a long time. Do any of you guys have any idea what the highest scores are on the tests (percentage wise)? I am not asking for any specific event.
I am asking this question because I took a Sounds of Music test and got 53% :(. Thankfully, my competition day is on March 2nd.


It varies drastically from competition to competition. For example, at more competitive ones(if you were taking the MIT test) the highest scores would be lower. But if the test was easy, first place could be close to 100%. Were you taking the MIT test? Because they released the highest score.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby eagerlearner102 » February 3rd, 2019, 11:02 am

I took the University of Florida test. It can be found on scioly.org/tests. I wouldn't say it is very hard. I thought it was hard because I didn't even study parts of the scales/intervals. I took it as a practice (a month away, so binder isn't 100% finished).
Well, I live in the Bay Area and there are 35 teams competing, so the tests will be harder.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby scienceisfunalil » February 3rd, 2019, 5:53 pm

eagerlearner102 wrote:I took the University of Florida test. It can be found on scioly.org/tests. I wouldn't say it is very hard. I thought it was hard because I didn't even study parts of the scales/intervals. I took it as a practice (a month away, so binder isn't 100% finished).
Well, I live in the Bay Area and there are 35 teams competing, so the tests will be harder.



Well. UF did release their detailed score breakdown available on their website. The highest score was 84.92. Assuming 1st place has the best PS and VS, and brought a log, they got a 66%. I think I'm not sure I did that math right. Another factor to consider is that this regional isn't particularly competitive. If a more competitive team was there, the high score would probably be much higher.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby trdd » February 4th, 2019, 4:57 pm

eagerlearner102 wrote:I took the University of Florida test. It can be found on scioly.org/tests. I wouldn't say it is very hard. I thought it was hard because I didn't even study parts of the scales/intervals. I took it as a practice (a month away, so binder isn't 100% finished).
Well, I live in the Bay Area and there are 35 teams competing, so the tests will be harder.


As an event supervisor I created a quite long and difficult exam to be done in 40 minutes and the highest score was a respectable 65% which was not bad considering the short time, the length of the exam and the difficulty. The scores will vary from region to region and from exam to exam. If the exam is too easy, then the event supervisor will have to do tie breakers because there may be 5 perfect score teams. I'd rather do long and difficult exams so that no one gets a perfect score and the scores are more evenly spread. It's still graded on a curve so whomever gets the highest exam score gets the full points and everyone else's is divided by that one. If you would have gotten 53% on my exam, you would have gotten the second highest score on it. ..and that would still be an 81% of the full score when graded on a curve. What matters is not your exam score by itself bu how close that score is to the highest score.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby scienceisfunalil » February 4th, 2019, 5:29 pm

trdd wrote:
eagerlearner102 wrote:I took the University of Florida test. It can be found on scioly.org/tests. I wouldn't say it is very hard. I thought it was hard because I didn't even study parts of the scales/intervals. I took it as a practice (a month away, so binder isn't 100% finished).
Well, I live in the Bay Area and there are 35 teams competing, so the tests will be harder.


As an event supervisor I created a quite long and difficult exam to be done in 40 minutes and the highest score was a respectable 65% which was not bad considering the short time, the length of the exam and the difficulty. The scores will vary from region to region and from exam to exam. If the exam is too easy, then the event supervisor will have to do tie breakers because there may be 5 perfect score teams. I'd rather do long and difficult exams so that no one gets a perfect score and the scores are more evenly spread. It's still graded on a curve so whomever gets the highest exam score gets the full points and everyone else's is divided by that one. If you would have gotten 53% on my exam, you would have gotten the second highest score on it. ..and that would still be an 81% of the full score when graded on a curve. What matters is not your exam score by itself bu how close that score is to the highest score.

Hey, I was pretty close on the math! Haha.
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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby killer225whale » February 5th, 2019, 5:06 pm

SoCal SciOly just posted the method they're going to be using for State: http://socalscioly.org/downloads/Sounds ... esting.pdf

It looks like they're using Audacity instead of Google Science Journal.

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Re: Sounds of Music C

Postby SciolyHarsh » February 5th, 2019, 5:27 pm

killer225whale wrote:SoCal SciOly just posted the method they're going to be using for State: http://socalscioly.org/downloads/Sounds ... esting.pdf

It looks like they're using Audacity instead of Google Science Journal.


And it looks like they are going for best pitch rather than average. Huh. Not bad. I'd hope for more states to do this, because average pitch is a painful process; it really dents the performance of strike-based instruments(unless you can somehow strike so fast that the delay is negligible).
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