## Sounds of Music C

tjc1123
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: February 25th, 2018, 6:25 pm
State: -

### Re: Sounds of Music C

Has anyone figured out a way to implement a valve mechanism for trumpets? I've tried so many different methods and nothing seems to work like it should.
Thanks!

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

tjc1123 wrote:Has anyone figured out a way to implement a valve mechanism for trumpets? I've tried so many different methods and nothing seems to work like it should.
Thanks!

I haven't actually made a trumpet so there's a good chance my advice won't help much, but some possible ideas are:

1. 3D printed valves; if you happen to have access to a 3D printer you can probably find designs online like this one:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:662115 or something similar. I believe most designs consist of many parts, so you might be able to find a way to just print the valves and have it work with what you have already. They might be finicky, however.

2. This is a rather underdeveloped idea, but maybe you can find a way to create something more like a rotary valve like this:
This might be more difficult to make, but there might be some way to use different PVC valves to change the path of the air, although I'm not sure how the sound quality of it would be.

3. If you really can't figure out the valves, it might be easier to make something more along the lines of a trombone with a slide rather than valves. You could also do something altogether different like making mouthpieces or interchangeable pieces of tubing of different lengths. It might be more practical to abandon a trumpet and choose something that would be easier to build/tune.

I'm not sure if this will help, so hopefully someone with more experience with building something like a trumpet has something more insightful to say, but that's just my two cents.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

hippo9
Member
Posts: 242
Joined: March 12th, 2018, 9:35 am
Division: C
State: IN

### Re: Sounds of Music C

wec01 wrote:
eagerlearner102 wrote:How do you solve Princeton invitational #31? I tried using f=v/2L and considered correction length and didn't even get the answers they wanted.

I'm not sure about this but it looks like they're using f=v/4L not f=v/2L. This doesn't entirely make sense, though, since a pan flute should be open on both ends, so I might be missing something.

Pan flutes are closed pipes....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_flute
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn’t be called research." - Albert Einstein

2018: Battery Buggy, Road Scholar, Roller Coaster
2019: Chemistry Lab, Codebusters, Disease Detectives, Fossils, Geologic Mapping, Sounds of Music

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

hippo9 wrote:
wec01 wrote:
eagerlearner102 wrote:How do you solve Princeton invitational #31? I tried using f=v/2L and considered correction length and didn't even get the answers they wanted.

I'm not sure about this but it looks like they're using f=v/4L not f=v/2L. This doesn't entirely make sense, though, since a pan flute should be open on both ends, so I might be missing something.

Pan flutes are closed pipes....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_flute

Oh okay, that's what I was missing
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

EmiliaM
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2019, 4:23 pm
Division: C
State: IL

### Re: Sounds of Music C

What is a celesta
NT 2021

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

EmiliaM wrote:What is a celesta

It's sort of like a piano where instead of strings the hammers strike metal keys.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

timwu0
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: March 23rd, 2019, 6:53 pm

### Re: Sounds of Music C

Does anyone know what app or device will be used at most State Tournaments (particularly MI) and Nationals for pitch and volume tests? I've found that different devices and apps can give very different results, and I just want to make sure we're practicing as with the same one as event supervisors will use. Anything helps, thanks!

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

timwu0 wrote:Does anyone know what app or device will be used at most State Tournaments (particularly MI) and Nationals for pitch and volume tests? I've found that different devices and apps can give very different results, and I just want to make sure we're practicing as with the same one as event supervisors will use. Anything helps, thanks!

Google Science Journal is often used although I'm not sure whether it will necessarily be used at your state tournament or nationals.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

Riptide
Exalted Member
Posts: 186
Joined: December 4th, 2017, 7:09 pm
State: TX
Contact:

### Re: Sounds of Music C

wec01 wrote:
timwu0 wrote:Does anyone know what app or device will be used at most State Tournaments (particularly MI) and Nationals for pitch and volume tests? I've found that different devices and apps can give very different results, and I just want to make sure we're practicing as with the same one as event supervisors will use. Anything helps, thanks!

Google Science Journal is often used although I'm not sure whether it will necessarily be used at your state tournament or nationals.

From what I've heard nationals will not use Science Journal.
University of California at Berkeley '23
Seven Lakes High School '19
Seven Lakes Junior High '15

SHASO2018
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: February 27th, 2018, 3:59 pm
Division: C
State: MI
Location: Most likely in my bed, maybe at school

### Re: Sounds of Music C

wec01 wrote:
timwu0 wrote:Does anyone know what app or device will be used at most State Tournaments (particularly MI) and Nationals for pitch and volume tests? I've found that different devices and apps can give very different results, and I just want to make sure we're practicing as with the same one as event supervisors will use. Anything helps, thanks!

Google Science Journal is often used although I'm not sure whether it will necessarily be used at your state tournament or nationals.

At my Michigan regionals they used Sci Journal, but I'm not sure what they'll do for states because it's not being used at nats.
R.I.P Region 15
Idk-2018

Current Events: Dynamic Planet (1st at Reg), Forensics (1st at Reg), Sounds of Music (3rd at Reg somehow)
Previous Events: DP, Crime Busters, DD, Optics, Wind Power, Fast Facts, Rocks and Minerals, Game On, Experimental Design, Mission Possible (sorta) and kinda Thermo

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

SHASO2018 wrote:
wec01 wrote:
timwu0 wrote:Does anyone know what app or device will be used at most State Tournaments (particularly MI) and Nationals for pitch and volume tests? I've found that different devices and apps can give very different results, and I just want to make sure we're practicing as with the same one as event supervisors will use. Anything helps, thanks!

Google Science Journal is often used although I'm not sure whether it will necessarily be used at your state tournament or nationals.

At my Michigan regionals they used Sci Journal, but I'm not sure what they'll do for states because it's not being used at nats.

If it was used at regionals there is a decent chance it will be used at states since the event supervisor could easily be the same person.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

agentm
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:29 am
State: IL

### Re: Sounds of Music C

What resources are you guys using for studying decibels? I'm trying to help my team figure it out but it's super confusing...

wec01
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: February 22nd, 2019, 4:02 pm
State: VA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

agentm wrote:What resources are you guys using for studying decibels? I'm trying to help my team figure it out but it's super confusing...

Basically, the point of decibels is to measure sound intensity in a way that is closer to how we perceive loudness, which is why it varies logarithmically with W/m^2. So if you hear a sound as twice as loud as another, the first one is roughly twice the number of decibels, not twice the W/m^2.

Because decibels are supposed to be more related to human hearing, that is also why $I_0$ is the value that it is. $I_0$ is roughly the minimum sound intensity humans can hear, so if the intensity is at $I_0$ (so if $I=I_0$ ), then $10log(I/I_0) = 10log(I_0/I_0) = 10log(1) = 0 dB$ . This makes 0 dB the minimum intensity humans can hear.

I'm not sure what part of it specifically is confusing you, but I hope this sort of general overview helps.
2019 Nationals Medals:
4th place Fossils
5th place Sounds of Music
2nd place Thermodynamics

UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F
Exalted Member
Posts: 1476
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 7:42 am
Division: C
State: PA

### Re: Sounds of Music C

wec01 wrote:
agentm wrote:What resources are you guys using for studying decibels? I'm trying to help my team figure it out but it's super confusing...

Basically, the point of decibels is to measure sound intensity in a way that is closer to how we perceive loudness, which is why it varies logarithmically with W/m^2. So if you hear a sound as twice as loud as another, the first one is roughly twice the number of decibels, not twice the W/m^2.

Because decibels are supposed to be more related to human hearing, that is also why $I_0$ is the value that it is. $I_0$ is roughly the minimum sound intensity humans can hear, so if the intensity is at $I_0$ (so if $I=I_0$ ), then $10log(I/I_0) = 10log(I_0/I_0) = 10log(1) = 0 dB$ . This makes 0 dB the minimum intensity humans can hear.

I'm not sure what part of it specifically is confusing you, but I hope this sort of general overview helps.

It's worth noting that decibels can denote sound pressure as well as sound intensity and so you should have reference values for both (one in pascals and one in watts per square meter).

agentm
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: January 18th, 2010, 11:29 am
State: IL

### Re: Sounds of Music C

wec01 wrote:
agentm wrote:What resources awe you guys using fow studying decibels? I'm trying to hewp my team figure it out but it's super confusing...

Basically, the point of decibels is to measure sound intensity in a way that is closer to how we perceive loudness, which is why it varies logarithmically with W/m^2. So if you hear a sound as twice as loud as another, the fiwst one is roughly twice the numbew of decibels, not twice the W/m^2.

Because decibels awe supposed to be mowe related to human hearing, that is also why $I_0$ is the value that it is. $I_0$ is roughly the minimum sound intensity humans can hear, so if the intensity is at $I_0$ (so if $I=I_0$ ), then $10log(I/I_0) = 10log(I_0/I_0) = 10log(1) = 0 dB$ . This makes 0 dB the minimum intensity humans can hear.

I'm not sure what pawt of it specifically is confusing you, but I hope this sort of genewaw overview helps.

We never studied logs, so that's the hardest part. I'm still a little unsure of the difference between sound intensity, sound pressure, and sound pressure level. Like...why are there three different ways of describing the same thing? Also, my team saw a question on an invite test about how many decibels something was "twice as loud" and the answer apparently wasn't twice the decibels. Maybe it was "twice as intense"? Does that make a difference?

Also.....for some reason my browser is changing r's into w's and I can't figure out what the heck is going on. It's actually kind of amusing.