Scores Discussion

[DatSciolyBoi]

I was able to get 1st at regionals with a glider that lasted about 20 seconds so maybe 0.9-1 second per foot

You have to factor in time spend in climb and transition too. So, for example, 26 seconds in a 25' ceiling would still equate to over 1 ft/sec since the model will spend about 1.5 seconds climbing and transitioning before it actually starts gliding.

Well it took a bit over a second to reach maximum height and spent the rest gliding downwards.

[fifty_missions]

In high ceiling contests, ELG drifts toward conventional AMA Standard Class gliders like the WOW. My Carbonette ELG design is an example of that.

I agree with Josh Finn on designing a high ceiling SO ELG glider. The ELG needs to be close in scope to an AMA Indoor Cat Glider. Our local team is preparing for their state competition under a 65' ceiling. Typical flappers won't take advantage of that height without incurring some damage or have too much drag to climb. We will use a new "hybrid" design with influences from Rob Romash's style that were favored when USIC was in TN.

This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.

We will report more if all goes well in a couple weeks.

Good Luck,
50 Missions

[Maxout]

This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.

Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.

[Unome]

This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.

Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.

Huh, 50 seconds in a 30 ft ceiling would be really interesting to see. I wouldn't have expected Nationals scores to go much over 40 at that height.

[bjt4888]

I had two students build Bill Gowen’s Category II record holder back in 2014 and they flew 54 seconds plus at an AMA contest with a 65 ft ceiling. The gliders we’re capable of more and we’re pretty well trimmed, but there was only time to trim for about an hour before we had to get official flights in.

The write up, including pictures and construction details is in Hip Pocket Aero under indoor CLG.

One of the students finished 2nd overall against a strong field of adults. The only person that beat him was a past member of the US F1B world championships team.

Brian T

[builderguy135]

This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.

Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.

Huh, 50 seconds in a 30 ft ceiling would be really interesting to see. I wouldn't have expected Nationals scores to go much over 40 at that height.

Yeah, even 40 seconds seems really high for a 30 ft. ceiling.

[bjt4888]

Forgot to mention. We built Bill’s gliders to 3.5 grams in order to get them 10 ft higher. Original design was 3.15 grams for a 15 meter (49 ft) ceiling. We also used Stan Buddenbohm’s Littl Sweep Category III-IV fuselage to take the launch force needed for the additional 10 ft. This design is a flapper and it worked great for 65 ft.

[fifty_missions]

My original comment was that our STATE competition is under a 65' ceiling. The team may very well go to nationals and, for there, use a completely different, lower ceiling Flapper.

Good Luck,
50 Missions

[coachchuckaahs]

Depending, of course, on what facility they decide to do Nationals in. Hopefully a different decision than the Invite!

Coach Chuck

[builderguy135]

The team may very well go to nationals and, for there, use a completely different, lower ceiling Flapper.

Good Luck,
50 Missions

TJMS?