Scores Discussion

User avatar
DatSciolyBoi
Member
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: February 26th, 2019, 7:52 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Location: Where the wild things are
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by DatSciolyBoi » February 28th, 2019, 3:16 pm

Maxout wrote:
DatSciolyBoi wrote:I was able to get 1st at regionals with a glider that lasted about 20 seconds so maybe 0.9-1 second per foot
You have to factor in time spend in climb and transition too. So, for example, 26 seconds in a 25' ceiling would still equate to over 1 ft/sec since the model will spend about 1.5 seconds climbing and transitioning before it actually starts gliding.
Well it took a bit over a second to reach maximum height and spent the rest gliding downwards.
Chaparral Middle School -> Troy High School
Background in: Wright Stuff, Bottle Rocket, Mission Possible, Wind Power, Experimental Design, Elastic Launched Glider, Fossils, Mystery Architecture
Builder Cult Satanic Group .CO :twisted:
Co-Sassy of Game 138: Tanks and Turrets

User avatar
fifty_missions
Member
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: March 1st, 2013, 1:30 pm
Division: C
State: IN
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by fifty_missions » March 8th, 2019, 2:10 pm

In high ceiling contests, ELG drifts toward conventional AMA Standard Class gliders like the WOW. My Carbonette ELG design is an example of that.
I agree with Josh Finn on designing a high ceiling SO ELG glider. The ELG needs to be close in scope to an AMA Indoor Cat Glider. Our local team is preparing for their state competition under a 65' ceiling. Typical flappers won't take advantage of that height without incurring some damage or have too much drag to climb. We will use a new "hybrid" design with influences from Rob Romash's style that were favored when USIC was in TN.

This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.

We will report more if all goes well in a couple weeks.

Good Luck,
50 Missions

User avatar
Maxout
Member
Member
Posts: 40
Joined: May 26th, 2015, 5:10 am
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by Maxout » March 11th, 2019, 11:49 am

fifty_missions wrote:This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.
Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.
Josh Finn

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4253
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by Unome » March 11th, 2019, 5:35 pm

Maxout wrote:
fifty_missions wrote:This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.
Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.
Huh, 50 seconds in a 30 ft ceiling would be really interesting to see. I wouldn't have expected Nationals scores to go much over 40 at that height.
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

bjt4888
Member
Member
Posts: 649
Joined: June 16th, 2013, 12:35 pm
Division: C
State: MI
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by bjt4888 » March 11th, 2019, 7:30 pm

I had two students build Bill Gowen’s Category II record holder back in 2014 and they flew 54 seconds plus at an AMA contest with a 65 ft ceiling. The gliders we’re capable of more and we’re pretty well trimmed, but there was only time to trim for about an hour before we had to get official flights in.

The write up, including pictures and construction details is in Hip Pocket Aero under indoor CLG.

One of the students finished 2nd overall against a strong field of adults. The only person that beat him was a past member of the US F1B world championships team.

Brian T

User avatar
builderguy135
Member
Member
Posts: 662
Joined: September 8th, 2018, 12:24 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by builderguy135 » March 11th, 2019, 8:03 pm

Unome wrote:
Maxout wrote:
fifty_missions wrote:This one will have a "speed" wing design that can handle the higher velocity launches needed to get up 60'. It uses a Polyhedral format with 2/3's of the wing having 3/32 thk 5 lb balsa with sections transitioning to 1/32 "Flapettes". So far test show that the glider is extremely stable in climb and happily transitions into a large lefthand orbit. "Low" ceiling (30') launches are different in that the glider likes a slight left bank (5 degrees) on launch. We are testing as if the glider is leaving the launcher as if it is already halfway up that 60' launch. We anticipate that on contest day the glider will be banked right and will have a slow corkscrew left, transition at the apex and fly slightly nose high. The hope/goal is over 50 seconds per flight.

It does react nicely to a couple degrees positive incidence on the port wing which seems to help in transitions and we would suggest considering this tactic if your glider makes a long or negligible transitions at the apex of the launch.
Sounds fairly reasonable. 50 seconds might be a little optimistic, unless you're working with really good, light C grain. I used some pretty spectacular C grain on the Carbonette 12 ELG prototype and didn't get to 50 seconds until I started launching pretty high, probably 75 ft. at 65', 40-45 seconds is a good target. You need to practice for it. Simulating halfway through the launch won't tell you much. Take the plane outside and fly it. Calm evenings are what you need.
Huh, 50 seconds in a 30 ft ceiling would be really interesting to see. I wouldn't have expected Nationals scores to go much over 40 at that height.
Yeah, even 40 seconds seems really high for a 30 ft. ceiling.
HSN '22 & DMAH Co-Captain
6-time medalist in Nationals 2019
2020 Sounds MIT and Princeton Champion
2020 (and probably 2021 :( ) Events: PPP/Sounds/Wright/Code/PaRaSiToLoGy

bjt4888
Member
Member
Posts: 649
Joined: June 16th, 2013, 12:35 pm
Division: C
State: MI
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by bjt4888 » March 11th, 2019, 8:13 pm

Forgot to mention. We built Bill’s gliders to 3.5 grams in order to get them 10 ft higher. Original design was 3.15 grams for a 15 meter (49 ft) ceiling. We also used Stan Buddenbohm’s Littl Sweep Category III-IV fuselage to take the launch force needed for the additional 10 ft. This design is a flapper and it worked great for 65 ft.

User avatar
fifty_missions
Member
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: March 1st, 2013, 1:30 pm
Division: C
State: IN
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by fifty_missions » March 11th, 2019, 8:14 pm

My original comment was that our STATE competition is under a 65' ceiling. The team may very well go to nationals and, for there, use a completely different, lower ceiling Flapper.

Good Luck,
50 Missions

coachchuckaahs
Member
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: April 24th, 2017, 9:19 am
Division: B
State: NM
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by coachchuckaahs » March 11th, 2019, 8:26 pm

Depending, of course, on what facility they decide to do Nationals in. Hopefully a different decision than the Invite!

Coach Chuck
Coach, Albuquerque Area Home Schoolers Flying Events
Nationals Results:
2016 C WS 8th place
2018 B WS 2nd place
2018 C Heli Champion
2019 B ELG 3rd place
2019 C WS Champion
AMA Results: 3 AAHS members qualify for US Jr Team in F1D, 4 new youth senior records

User avatar
builderguy135
Member
Member
Posts: 662
Joined: September 8th, 2018, 12:24 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Scores Discussion

Post by builderguy135 » March 16th, 2019, 1:42 pm

fifty_missions wrote:The team may very well go to nationals and, for there, use a completely different, lower ceiling Flapper.

Good Luck,
50 Missions
TJMS?
HSN '22 & DMAH Co-Captain
6-time medalist in Nationals 2019
2020 Sounds MIT and Princeton Champion
2020 (and probably 2021 :( ) Events: PPP/Sounds/Wright/Code/PaRaSiToLoGy

Locked

Return to “Elastic Launched Gliders B”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest