Dropping Sand

Carrot
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Re: Dropping Sand

Post by Carrot » March 7th, 2019, 6:46 pm

klastyioer wrote:
Carrot wrote:
klastyioer wrote:go slow and keep the sand pouring in the bucket. inform your partner if the bucket is tilted, always keep it level and still
I don't believe that a tilting bucket would affect anything as the center of mass is still in line with the chain and it is loading only from one point.
its still important to keep the bucket str8 relative to the ground though, if it is tilted then the sand may tilt in the downwards direction of the bucket, later offsetting the weight distribution of the entire thing. you always want to keep things as level as possible
Unless there is a sudden change in angle and if the bucket does not sway back and forth, the same amount of force will be applied from the bucket too the chain. As the eye hook in the loading block is the only part the chain is touching, there will only be force acting on the very center of the loading block. Sure, the center of mass of the sand in the bucket might change in elevation, but it will always stay in line with the chain as the bucket will tilt to adjust to that. The elevation of the center of mass would also be adjusted based off of how high off the ground you hook the bucket onto the chain.

This is just how I see it, as it is especially hard to keep the bucket from not tilting with an auto loader. With cup/hand loading, if you try to keep it even you have to be very careful that you do not touch the chain or the bucket, as "Direct contact with the bucket by participants is NOT allowed" (4f), and I still do not see any advantage that it may offer.

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klastyioer
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Re: Dropping Sand

Post by klastyioer » March 8th, 2019, 7:18 am

Carrot wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
Carrot wrote:
I don't believe that a tilting bucket would affect anything as the center of mass is still in line with the chain and it is loading only from one point.
its still important to keep the bucket str8 relative to the ground though, if it is tilted then the sand may tilt in the downwards direction of the bucket, later offsetting the weight distribution of the entire thing. you always want to keep things as level as possible
Unless there is a sudden change in angle and if the bucket does not sway back and forth, the same amount of force will be applied from the bucket too the chain. As the eye hook in the loading block is the only part the chain is touching, there will only be force acting on the very center of the loading block. Sure, the center of mass of the sand in the bucket might change in elevation, but it will always stay in line with the chain as the bucket will tilt to adjust to that. The elevation of the center of mass would also be adjusted based off of how high off the ground you hook the bucket onto the chain.

This is just how I see it, as it is especially hard to keep the bucket from not tilting with an auto loader. With cup/hand loading, if you try to keep it even you have to be very careful that you do not touch the chain or the bucket, as "Direct contact with the bucket by participants is NOT allowed" (4f), and I still do not see any advantage that it may offer.
yeah thats what im saying in the case that it does have a change in angle, you would need to keep it from doing so. good points made though, i too dont see an advantage to touching the bucket except for if you were allowed to, you could lift the bucket up yourself and relieve the weight put on the loading point
it's not about the medals; go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things and have one heck of a time; that's all that matters.

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Re: Dropping Sand

Post by dholdgreve » March 8th, 2019, 8:03 am

klastyioer wrote:
Carrot wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
its still important to keep the bucket str8 relative to the ground though, if it is tilted then the sand may tilt in the downwards direction of the bucket, later offsetting the weight distribution of the entire thing. you always want to keep things as level as possible
Unless there is a sudden change in angle and if the bucket does not sway back and forth, the same amount of force will be applied from the bucket too the chain. As the eye hook in the loading block is the only part the chain is touching, there will only be force acting on the very center of the loading block. Sure, the center of mass of the sand in the bucket might change in elevation, but it will always stay in line with the chain as the bucket will tilt to adjust to that. The elevation of the center of mass would also be adjusted based off of how high off the ground you hook the bucket onto the chain.

This is just how I see it, as it is especially hard to keep the bucket from not tilting with an auto loader. With cup/hand loading, if you try to keep it even you have to be very careful that you do not touch the chain or the bucket, as "Direct contact with the bucket by participants is NOT allowed" (4f), and I still do not see any advantage that it may offer.
yeah thats what im saying in the case that it does have a change in angle, you would need to keep it from doing so. good points made though, i too dont see an advantage to touching the bucket except for if you were allowed to, you could lift the bucket up yourself and relieve the weight put on the loading point
The angle of the bucket has absolutely nothing to do with the force vector applied to the boom. I grant you, that by the bucket tipping, there is the risk of the edge of the bucket touching the ground, thus ending your loading, but realizing this potential, and hanging it high enough to start with will avoid that pitfall... Those that become preoccupied trying to keep the bucket level will in all likelihood end up pushing the bucket off vertical in an effort to try to keep it level. When that happens, the force vector follows the angle of the chain, and chaos ensues... Focus on keeping the chain straight. Focus on keeping the loading block centered on the boom, focus on the bucket not swaying (this is different than tipping), focus on YOU not moving, focus on making sure there are no twisted links that might pop and straighten when loading, focus on the clock that you don't run out of time, focus on making sure you AND YOUR PARTNER have your goggles on, focus on not banging the bucket or chain if hand loading... With all these other things to focus on, you do not have time to focus on keeping the bucket level, and if you do, something else will not get the attention it deserves.... Honest!... Don't worry about the bucket!
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