Mission Possible C

JonB
Coach
Coach
Posts: 282
Joined: March 11th, 2014, 12:00 pm
Division: C
State: FL

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby JonB » January 13th, 2019, 10:52 am

Thank you for running mission at MIT. The event setup was great (with the two sides and close spectator area) and for the amount of teams you had to move through the event, I think you and your team did a great job. I appreciated the questions you asked each competitor and the conversations you had with the teams about each device.

mrtoaf
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: January 15th, 2019, 5:59 am

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby mrtoaf » January 15th, 2019, 6:03 am

Do most top 10 teams at nationals do every single one of the tasks offered?

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 382
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby nicholasmaurer » January 15th, 2019, 3:02 pm

Do most top 10 teams at nationals do every single one of the tasks offered?
Last year I think many attempted all of the tasks. This year I expect a number will avoid the unguided balloon task.
Assistant Coach and Alumnus ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament
Tournament Director - Solon High School Science Olympiad Invitational

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

User avatar
TheSquaad
Member
Member
Posts: 159
Joined: March 18th, 2017, 5:14 pm
Division: Grad
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby TheSquaad » January 15th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Do most top 10 teams at nationals do every single one of the tasks offered?
Last year I think many attempted all of the tasks. This year I expect a number will avoid the unguided balloon task.
I’d expect more to avoid the quarter flip task.

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 382
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby nicholasmaurer » January 15th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Do most top 10 teams at nationals do every single one of the tasks offered?
Last year I think many attempted all of the tasks. This year I expect a number will avoid the unguided balloon task.
I’d expect more to avoid the quarter flip task.
I've seen several effective solutions for the quarter flip task. The unguided balloon has no clever solutions - it takes up a tremendous amount of space by design, fills at a somewhat unpredictable pace, and always risks being invalidated by bumping into something and thus becoming "guided."
Assistant Coach and Alumnus ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament
Tournament Director - Solon High School Science Olympiad Invitational

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

User avatar
windu34
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1339
Joined: April 19th, 2015, 6:37 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby windu34 » January 15th, 2019, 7:15 pm


Last year I think many attempted all of the tasks. This year I expect a number will avoid the unguided balloon task.
I’d expect more to avoid the quarter flip task.
I've seen several effective solutions for the quarter flip task. The unguided balloon has no clever solutions - it takes up a tremendous amount of space by design, fills at a somewhat unpredictable pace, and always risks being invalidated by bumping into something and thus becoming "guided."
I think it will be totally reasonable to place without the balloon task at nationals. If you have all the other tasks and there are no issues and nothing goes wrong, I think its even possible to get 1st. Consistency in this event is key, and should always be prioritized over increasing number of tasks.
Boca Raton Community High School Alumni
Florida State Tournament Director 2020
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Member
kevin@floridascienceolympiad.org || windu34's Userpage

Circuit Lab Event Supervisor for 2020: UT Austin (B/C), MIT (C), Solon (C), Princeton (C), Golden Gate (C), Nationals (C)

User avatar
TheSquaad
Member
Member
Posts: 159
Joined: March 18th, 2017, 5:14 pm
Division: Grad
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby TheSquaad » January 16th, 2019, 8:38 am


Last year I think many attempted all of the tasks. This year I expect a number will avoid the unguided balloon task.
I’d expect more to avoid the quarter flip task.
I've seen several effective solutions for the quarter flip task. The unguided balloon has no clever solutions - it takes up a tremendous amount of space by design, fills at a somewhat unpredictable pace, and always risks being invalidated by bumping into something and thus becoming "guided."
I don’t thinking bumping into a wall qualifies as guided. That happened to my balloon at mit, and there were no concerns. In fact, in my opinion, as long as the balloon isn’t guaranteed to bump into a wall, it should just be considered random movement.

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 382
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby nicholasmaurer » January 16th, 2019, 6:50 pm


I’d expect more to avoid the quarter flip task.
I've seen several effective solutions for the quarter flip task. The unguided balloon has no clever solutions - it takes up a tremendous amount of space by design, fills at a somewhat unpredictable pace, and always risks being invalidated by bumping into something and thus becoming "guided."
I don’t thinking bumping into a wall qualifies as guided. That happened to my balloon at mit, and there were no concerns. In fact, in my opinion, as long as the balloon isn’t guaranteed to bump into a wall, it should just be considered random movement.
I have discussed this at length with one of the National Event Supervisors who was involved in writing the rules. Because one cannot determine if an object was intentionally placed to guide the balloon, essentially any object it collides with will likely be treated as guidance. This is reinforced by the 10/15/18 FAQ. While the FAQ begins by saying only objects "placed strategically" count as violations, it then goes on to say there "must be enough room between the balloon and the other parts of the machine to allow the balloon to move randomly." In other words, there has to be enough space that the first thing it runs into is the trigger for the next action. They intentionally designed this task to require a significant amount of space to execute successfully.

I cannot speak for how windu34 and others scored this at MIT, but that is how I expect it to be scored at the Ohio State and National Tournaments.

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.
Assistant Coach and Alumnus ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament
Tournament Director - Solon High School Science Olympiad Invitational

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

User avatar
windu34
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1339
Joined: April 19th, 2015, 6:37 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby windu34 » January 17th, 2019, 5:50 am


I've seen several effective solutions for the quarter flip task. The unguided balloon has no clever solutions - it takes up a tremendous amount of space by design, fills at a somewhat unpredictable pace, and always risks being invalidated by bumping into something and thus becoming "guided."
I don’t thinking bumping into a wall qualifies as guided. That happened to my balloon at mit, and there were no concerns. In fact, in my opinion, as long as the balloon isn’t guaranteed to bump into a wall, it should just be considered random movement.
I have discussed this at length with one of the National Event Supervisors who was involved in writing the rules. Because one cannot determine if an object was intentionally placed to guide the balloon, essentially any object it collides with will likely be treated as guidance. This is reinforced by the 10/15/18 FAQ. While the FAQ begins by saying only objects "placed strategically" count as violations, it then goes on to say there "must be enough room between the balloon and the other parts of the machine to allow the balloon to move randomly." In other words, there has to be enough space that the first thing it runs into is the trigger for the next action. They intentionally designed this task to require a significant amount of space to execute successfully.

I cannot speak for how windu34 and others scored this at MIT, but that is how I expect it to be scored at the Ohio State and National Tournaments.

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.
I personally only remember judging 1 device that even attempted the balloon task, and im pretty sure it did touch the sides, but it failed to initiate the next action so it didnt matter. Perhaps my co-supervisors judged your device and deemed it "accidental/random". Regardless, what nicholasmaurer is saying is correct, and I would encourage you to get the task to comply to ensure you dont get penalized in the future.
Boca Raton Community High School Alumni
Florida State Tournament Director 2020
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Member
kevin@floridascienceolympiad.org || windu34's Userpage

Circuit Lab Event Supervisor for 2020: UT Austin (B/C), MIT (C), Solon (C), Princeton (C), Golden Gate (C), Nationals (C)

jinhusong
Member
Member
Posts: 115
Joined: March 16th, 2017, 3:34 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Location: Santa Clara

Re: Mission Possible C

Postby jinhusong » January 17th, 2019, 9:11 am

Long and narrow Mylar balloon will make this task much easier.


Jinhu


Return to “Mission Possible C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest