Infrared Task

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Infrared Task

Postby Unome » September 3rd, 2018, 7:14 pm

See rule 4.b.v

This task is identical to last year's.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby absolutezerok3 » September 5th, 2018, 7:30 pm

Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby nicholasmaurer » September 5th, 2018, 8:42 pm

absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?


This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:

    1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby cuber » September 9th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Do you guys think it's necessary to modulate the emitter and receiver to avoid interference, or just use a constant on or off beam? Last year I used arduino's to modulate the beam, but I'm aware that there are 555 timer circuits that can accomplish the same thing, I just need to do a little digging to find them.

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby chessbucket » September 17th, 2018, 7:47 am

nicholasmaurer wrote:
absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?


This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:

    1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.


An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby ScottMaurer19 » September 17th, 2018, 8:49 am

chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?


This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:

    1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.


An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.

You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby chessbucket » September 17th, 2018, 7:26 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:

    1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.


An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.

You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.


Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby trdd » September 19th, 2018, 1:46 pm

chessbucket wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.

You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.


Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.


That's the way I'm interpreting that too. If you use electricity after the endothermic task to run a motor to raise the pulley, then the motor would be considered part of the pulley task because the motor is the one doing all of the work of pulling the 500g weight of the pulley system and thus incur the penalty. The motor is not initiating the next action. It would be PART of the next action. But if you use the same motor to rotate a base holding a weight causing it to fall down, then that same motor was used to initiate the next action and as long as YOU INCLUDE that motor as part of the endothermic task in your ASL. Something like: "When this device gets cold it turns on this motor that moves the base releasing the weight which initiates the next action" Then that would be ok because the motor will not be running the pulley. Bottom line is: YOU CAN'T USE A MOTOR to pull up the weight of the the pulley system. It has to be done with potential energy.

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby chessbucket » September 21st, 2018, 5:30 am

trdd wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote:You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.


Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.


That's the way I'm interpreting that too. If you use electricity after the endothermic task to run a motor to raise the pulley, then the motor would be considered part of the pulley task because the motor is the one doing all of the work of pulling the 500g weight of the pulley system and thus incur the penalty. The motor is not initiating the next action. It would be PART of the next action. But if you use the same motor to rotate a base holding a weight causing it to fall down, then that same motor was used to initiate the next action and as long as YOU INCLUDE that motor as part of the endothermic task in your ASL. Something like: "When this device gets cold it turns on this motor that moves the base releasing the weight which initiates the next action" Then that would be ok because the motor will not be running the pulley. Bottom line is: YOU CAN'T USE A MOTOR to pull up the weight of the the pulley system. It has to be done with potential energy.


Ahh ok that makes so much more sense. Thanks trdd.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby Flavorflav » December 9th, 2018, 2:56 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:

    1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.


An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.

You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.

So would you think that you could list the IR receiver, a relay and a motor/servo/solenoid as all being part of the IR task? The difficulty is that most IR components are not built to handle much current, and I'm afraid that without a microcontroller flipping a relay is about the best you could do.

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby engineerandgolfer » January 18th, 2019, 5:48 pm

Hello all,

This is my first year on Mission, and I am in over my head with this task. What I am looking to do is have the golf ball from the start task land in a cup that would apply pressure on and close a switch, allowing current to flow to the IR transmitter. The receiver would detect the IR and this would allow current to flow through a relay to a motor with an attached blade that would carry out action 11 (fishing line task).

Is what I am describing possible with these components:

https://www.alliedelec.com/optek-tt-ele ... gLpyPD_BwE

A lot of examples of IR circuits that I found online were super complicated and/or required Arduinos, which aren't allowed this year.

I could really use some guidance with this. Thank you for your help.

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby firework » February 5th, 2019, 7:52 pm

Does anyone think an infrared break-beam is legit? The rules don't ever specify that you must turn on the beam.

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby stevieb711 » February 6th, 2019, 6:33 pm

firework wrote:Does anyone think an infrared break-beam is legit? The rules don't ever specify that you must turn on the beam.

I was just thinking the same thing. They simply say to "use an infrared beam" to start the next action. Pretty ambiguous

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Re: Infrared Task

Postby windu34 » February 7th, 2019, 9:37 am

engineerandgolfer wrote:What I am looking to do is have the golf ball from the start task land in a cup that would apply pressure on and close a switch, allowing current to flow to the IR transmitter. The receiver would detect the IR and this would allow current to flow through a relay to a motor with an attached blade that would carry out action 11 (fishing line task).

Seems like it should work, although I am not a competitor so I may not be aware of particular problems others are having.
I would be worried about that blade on a motor - seems pretty dangerous if not properly contained/shielded and could get you DQed for safety issues - i would try to find a different solution.
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Re: Infrared Task

Postby dragonfruit35 » February 7th, 2019, 10:14 am

windu34 wrote:
engineerandgolfer wrote:What I am looking to do is have the golf ball from the start task land in a cup that would apply pressure on and close a switch, allowing current to flow to the IR transmitter. The receiver would detect the IR and this would allow current to flow through a relay to a motor with an attached blade that would carry out action 11 (fishing line task).

Seems like it should work, although I am not a competitor so I may not be aware of particular problems others are having.
I would be worried about that blade on a motor - seems pretty dangerous if not properly contained/shielded and could get you DQed for safety issues - i would try to find a different solution.


I would attempt to break the fishing line with nichrome wire instead, if possible. You could hook it up to the same relay-switched circuit.

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