Infrared Task

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4167
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse

Infrared Task

Post by Unome » September 3rd, 2018, 7:14 pm

See rule 4.b.v

This task is identical to last year's.
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

absolutezerok3
Member
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: March 9th, 2017, 9:37 pm
Division: C
State: MI

Re: Infrared Task

Post by absolutezerok3 » September 5th, 2018, 7:30 pm

Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?
1|states MTV
[i]Disease Detectives[/i][b]| Mousetrap Vehicle |[/b][u] Circuit Lab [/u][b]| Mission Possible |[/b]Boomilever.
5 years and counting!!

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 395
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Infrared Task

Post by nicholasmaurer » September 5th, 2018, 8:42 pm

absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:
  • 1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
Assistant Coach and Alumnus ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament
Tournament Director - Solon High School Science Olympiad Invitational

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

User avatar
cuber
Member
Member
Posts: 47
Joined: March 25th, 2017, 7:26 am
Division: C
State: NY

Re: Infrared Task

Post by cuber » September 9th, 2018, 1:42 pm

Do you guys think it's necessary to modulate the emitter and receiver to avoid interference, or just use a constant on or off beam? Last year I used arduino's to modulate the beam, but I'm aware that there are 555 timer circuits that can accomplish the same thing, I just need to do a little digging to find them.

chessbucket
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: September 5th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Re: Infrared Task

Post by chessbucket » September 17th, 2018, 7:47 am

nicholasmaurer wrote:
absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:
  • 1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
2019: Nationals Mission Possible 2nd
2019: NC Mission Possible 2nd
2018: NC Mission Possible 1st

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

ScottMaurer19
Member
Member
Posts: 588
Joined: January 5th, 2017, 9:39 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH

Re: Infrared Task

Post by ScottMaurer19 » September 17th, 2018, 8:49 am

chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
absolutezerok3 wrote:Would making the infrared receiver run a motor(without any programmable stuff) after receiving a signal from a remote be considered within the bounds of the scorable action or would it be considered 2 separate actions?
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:
  • 1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80

chessbucket
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: September 5th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Re: Infrared Task

Post by chessbucket » September 17th, 2018, 7:26 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:
  • 1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.
2019: Nationals Mission Possible 2nd
2019: NC Mission Possible 2nd
2018: NC Mission Possible 1st

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

trdd
Member
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: September 13th, 2018, 7:24 am

Re: Infrared Task

Post by trdd » September 19th, 2018, 1:46 pm

chessbucket wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.
That's the way I'm interpreting that too. If you use electricity after the endothermic task to run a motor to raise the pulley, then the motor would be considered part of the pulley task because the motor is the one doing all of the work of pulling the 500g weight of the pulley system and thus incur the penalty. The motor is not initiating the next action. It would be PART of the next action. But if you use the same motor to rotate a base holding a weight causing it to fall down, then that same motor was used to initiate the next action and as long as YOU INCLUDE that motor as part of the endothermic task in your ASL. Something like: "When this device gets cold it turns on this motor that moves the base releasing the weight which initiates the next action" Then that would be ok because the motor will not be running the pulley. Bottom line is: YOU CAN'T USE A MOTOR to pull up the weight of the the pulley system. It has to be done with potential energy.

chessbucket
Member
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: September 5th, 2018, 4:34 pm

Re: Infrared Task

Post by chessbucket » September 21st, 2018, 5:30 am

trdd wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
Ahhh that makes sense. Still would want to post an FAQ just to be sure.
That's the way I'm interpreting that too. If you use electricity after the endothermic task to run a motor to raise the pulley, then the motor would be considered part of the pulley task because the motor is the one doing all of the work of pulling the 500g weight of the pulley system and thus incur the penalty. The motor is not initiating the next action. It would be PART of the next action. But if you use the same motor to rotate a base holding a weight causing it to fall down, then that same motor was used to initiate the next action and as long as YOU INCLUDE that motor as part of the endothermic task in your ASL. Something like: "When this device gets cold it turns on this motor that moves the base releasing the weight which initiates the next action" Then that would be ok because the motor will not be running the pulley. Bottom line is: YOU CAN'T USE A MOTOR to pull up the weight of the the pulley system. It has to be done with potential energy.
Ahh ok that makes so much more sense. Thanks trdd.
2019: Nationals Mission Possible 2nd
2019: NC Mission Possible 2nd
2018: NC Mission Possible 1st

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

Flavorflav
Member
Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: February 5th, 2006, 7:06 am
Division: Grad
State: NY

Re: Infrared Task

Post by Flavorflav » December 9th, 2018, 2:56 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
chessbucket wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
This will depend largely on your execution. I'd recommend two things to make this safer:
  • 1. Phrase/structure your ASL carefully: include the motor in the same action/line as the infrared beam to make it clear its part of scorable action 5
    2. Keep the motor's role simple and ensure it leads directly and quickly to "initiating the next action." This once again relies on your ASL - as soon as the motor has converted the electrical energy into mechanical, switch to a new line/action.
An FAQ or rule clarification needs to be posted for what is allowed for the 3 tasks that you can use electricity. Does that mean you can use electricity to accomplish those certain 3 tasks, and then use electricity to do the next task which is not specifically said to use electricity (i.e. infrared beam triggers a motor which winches up the 500g mass with pulley system of ima=3)? If not, then the only way to conclude an electrical task would be to feed it into another electrical task and so forth- the last 4 tasks are already set in stone then, because they would be the 3 electrical tasks and then the final task.
You can use electricity to INTIATE the next action but not carry it out. For example, infrared beam causes a solenoid that was preventing a mass from falling to open. This would then allow the mass to fall and so on. The IR/solenoid would be all part of the same action. Then the mass falling would be the next.
So would you think that you could list the IR receiver, a relay and a motor/servo/solenoid as all being part of the IR task? The difficulty is that most IR components are not built to handle much current, and I'm afraid that without a microcontroller flipping a relay is about the best you could do.

Locked

Return to “Mission Possible C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest