End Task

Locked
marty3
Member
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: March 1st, 2011, 12:20 am
Division: Grad
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: End Task

Post by marty3 »

Airco2020 wrote:We had a change in how the final action is evaluated at an invitational this weekend. We had read the rules as the platform needs to move 20cm and end up as the highest point of the device when it stops. This is how it had been scored for the first few invitationals we attended. At this one, however, they said no, the rule says it have to move 20cm BEFORE becoming the highest point. That means it needs to move 20cm inside the device before it moves above. That also means it really needs to move MORE than 20cm since it now has to move 20cm and then become the highest point. Neither of our teams this weekend received any points on the final action due to this interpretation.

My question is how is everyone else scoring the end task and is this interpretation the correct one?
That issue came up at a tournament 2 weekends ago, and we didn't allow it for the exact same reason. But why does it have to move more than 20.0 cm?

If you're worried about judges at future tournaments overlooking this, it doesn't hurt to bring it up with them before the first block (ideally at impound).
PM2017 wrote: ... the safest way is the correct way.
Great motto for this event.
C8H10N4O2!
Member
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: October 4th, 2018, 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: End Task

Post by C8H10N4O2! »

marty3 wrote:
Airco2020 wrote:We had a change in how the final action is evaluated at an invitational this weekend. We had read the rules as the platform needs to move 20cm and end up as the highest point of the device when it stops. This is how it had been scored for the first few invitationals we attended. At this one, however, they said no, the rule says it have to move 20cm BEFORE becoming the highest point. That means it needs to move 20cm inside the device before it moves above. That also means it really needs to move MORE than 20cm since it now has to move 20cm and then become the highest point. Neither of our teams this weekend received any points on the final action due to this interpretation.

My question is how is everyone else scoring the end task and is this interpretation the correct one?
That issue came up at a tournament 2 weekends ago, and we didn't allow it for the exact same reason. But why does it have to move more than 20.0 cm?

If you're worried about judges at future tournaments overlooking this, it doesn't hurt to bring it up with them before the first block (ideally at impound).
PM2017 wrote: ... the safest way is the correct way.
Great motto for this event.
I agree with that interpretation. It says that it must rise 20.0cm BEFORE becoming the highest point. Additionally, the part of rising above the device is meant to be hard because you can't have anything pulling the platform up (for the most part), you have to push it.
If anyone is stuck, come up with a way to raise a platform inside the bounds of their device, then add a stilted platform to that so it reaches above. Make sure that the stilted platform rises 20.0 cm, so the other one will need to start lower than you think.
Airco2020
Member
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:43 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by Airco2020 »

[That issue came up at a tournament 2 weekends ago, and we didn't allow it for the exact same reason. But why does it have to move more than 20.0 cm?]

Since it has to move 20cm BEFORE that means at 19.5cm it can't become the highest point, only AFTER 20cm can it become the highest point. So technically you could move 20.1cm but you'd need to prove it all happened correctly. Safer to move 20 in the box and another couple cm above?
ScottMaurer19
Member
Member
Posts: 592
Joined: January 5th, 2017, 9:39 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by ScottMaurer19 »

Airco2020 wrote:[That issue came up at a tournament 2 weekends ago, and we didn't allow it for the exact same reason. But why does it have to move more than 20.0 cm?]

Since it has to move 20cm BEFORE that means at 19.5cm it can't become the highest point, only AFTER 20cm can it become the highest point. So technically you could move 20.1cm but you'd need to prove it all happened correctly. Safer to move 20 in the box and another couple cm above?
I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80
Airco2020
Member
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:43 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by Airco2020 »

ScottMaurer19 wrote: I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My device moves a total of 21cm. It's currently set up to move about 15 in the box and then about 6 above the box so it's the highest point. The judges didn't give any points for the final action since it didn't move 20cm Before becoming the highest point. So my solution is I need to find a way to lower my platform so it can move 20cm in the box and then that final 1cm travel I have needs to be above the box. Or I need to find a new solution that travels more the 21cm.
ScottMaurer19
Member
Member
Posts: 592
Joined: January 5th, 2017, 9:39 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by ScottMaurer19 »

Airco2020 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My device moves a total of 21cm. It's currently set up to move about 15 in the box and then about 6 above the box so it's the highest point. The judges didn't give any points for the final action since it didn't move 20cm Before becoming the highest point. So my solution is I need to find a way to lower my platform so it can move 20cm in the box and then that final 1cm travel I have needs to be above the box. Or I need to find a new solution that travels more the 21cm.
Your platform (IMO) needs to move at least 20cm within the measured "box" before becoming the highest point. It doesn't matter if it moves 50 cm in total or 21 cm in total as long as the platform moves 20 vertical cm within the measured device dimensions.
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80
Airco2020
Member
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:43 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by Airco2020 »

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
Airco2020 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My device moves a total of 21cm. It's currently set up to move about 15 in the box and then about 6 above the box so it's the highest point. The judges didn't give any points for the final action since it didn't move 20cm Before becoming the highest point. So my solution is I need to find a way to lower my platform so it can move 20cm in the box and then that final 1cm travel I have needs to be above the box. Or I need to find a new solution that travels more the 21cm.
Your platform (IMO) needs to move at least 20cm within the measured "box" before becoming the highest point. It doesn't matter if it moves 50 cm in total or 21 cm in total as long as the platform moves 20 vertical cm within the measured device dimensions.
Agreed!
User avatar
PM2017
Member
Member
Posts: 524
Joined: January 20th, 2017, 5:02 pm
Division: Grad
State: CA
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: End Task

Post by PM2017 »

Airco2020 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My device moves a total of 21cm. It's currently set up to move about 15 in the box and then about 6 above the box so it's the highest point. The judges didn't give any points for the final action since it didn't move 20cm Before becoming the highest point. So my solution is I need to find a way to lower my platform so it can move 20cm in the box and then that final 1cm travel I have needs to be above the box. Or I need to find a new solution that travels more the 21cm.
If you need a fast fix, you could always attach a popsicle stick or something to the frame so that the highest point is ~0.5 cm lower than the highest point of your lift. You would lose ~ 5 points, given the values you told us, but it's a pretty good payoff lol.


EDIT: Unless you're already at 60x60x55 or something, in which case it's probably fairly easy to adjust where your lift is. (IDK why you would be at those dimensions anyways.)
West High '19
UC Berkeley '23

Go Bears!
User avatar
CookiePie1
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 428
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 5:05 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: End Task

Post by CookiePie1 »

PM2017 wrote:
Airco2020 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: I interpreted it as needing to move 20cm within the box itself. Otherwise it cannot become the highest point AFTER 20cm. It would be the highest point before moving a full 20cm and therefore not count for points (nor technically stop the run time unless it somehow didn't raise 20cm before reaching the top due to some unintentional device failure such as a lever accidentally leaving the top dimension and increasing where the top dimension of the device is).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. My device moves a total of 21cm. It's currently set up to move about 15 in the box and then about 6 above the box so it's the highest point. The judges didn't give any points for the final action since it didn't move 20cm Before becoming the highest point. So my solution is I need to find a way to lower my platform so it can move 20cm in the box and then that final 1cm travel I have needs to be above the box. Or I need to find a new solution that travels more the 21cm.
If you need a fast fix, you could always attach a popsicle stick or something to the frame so that the highest point is ~0.5 cm lower than the highest point of your lift. You would lose ~ 5 points, given the values you told us, but it's a pretty good payoff lol.


EDIT: Unless you're already at 60x60x55 or something, in which case it's probably fairly easy to adjust where your lift is. (IDK why you would be at those dimensions anyways.)
I know that many of the teams I see at invies have really big devices, almost about to cross dimensions. It doesn't really make sense, especially given the fact that much of the space isn't even used.
South Brunswick High School Captain '22
2020 Events: Protein Modeling, Ping Pong Parachute, Wright Stuff, Sounds of Music
2021 Events: Protein Modeling, Sounds of Music, Ornithology
2022 Events: TBD

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
-Albert Einstein
Airco2020
Member
Member
Posts: 117
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:43 pm
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: End Task

Post by Airco2020 »

PM2017 wrote:[
If you need a fast fix, you could always attach a popsicle stick or something to the frame so that the highest point is ~0.5 cm lower than the highest point of your lift. You would lose ~ 5 points, given the values you told us, but it's a pretty good payoff lol.


EDIT: Unless you're already at 60x60x55 or something, in which case it's probably fairly easy to adjust where your lift is. (IDK why you would be at those dimensions anyways.)
Great idea. We can put it right next to the platform so there is no confusion that the platform finishes as the highest point. We currently get 76 of the possible 90 points for size so giving up 5 is OK. I don't want to completely redesign an action that works perfectly. I guess the major frustration is that it's been run twice without question including one 1st place and then was completely regected :evil: .
Locked

Return to “Mission Possible C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests