Event Supervising

ScottMaurer19
Member
Member
Posts: 592
Joined: January 5th, 2017, 9:39 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Event Supervising

Post by ScottMaurer19 » January 30th, 2019, 10:56 am

knightmoves wrote:
Flavorflav wrote:Speaking of safety checks, can we talk about lead? I had two devices that used lead weights, and given the wording of 3j I had to consider them to have violated the safety clause in 2c, which means participation only. Does that strike anyone else as unnecessarily harsh?
3j explicitly calls out lead as not being permitted. There's no judgement call here at all - lead is not allowed. I'd think you could allow the teams to remove their lead safely and compete without it under 2c - but what counts as "remove it safely" is an ES judgement call.

Tungsten weights are readily available - there's no need for anyone to be handling lead.
Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
Solon '19 Captain, CWRU '23
2017 (r/s/n):
Hydro: 3/5/18
Robot Arm: na/1/1
Rocks: 1/1/1

2018 (r/s/n):
Heli: 2/1/7 
Herp: 1/4/4
Mission: 1/1/6
Rocks: 1/1/1
Eco: 6/3/9

2019 (r/s/n):
Fossils: 1/1/1
GLM: 1/1/1
Herp: 1/1/5
Mission: 1/1/3
WS: 4/1/10

Top 3 Medals: 144
Golds: 80

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4262
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by Unome » January 30th, 2019, 12:10 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
knightmoves wrote:
Flavorflav wrote:Speaking of safety checks, can we talk about lead? I had two devices that used lead weights, and given the wording of 3j I had to consider them to have violated the safety clause in 2c, which means participation only. Does that strike anyone else as unnecessarily harsh?
3j explicitly calls out lead as not being permitted. There's no judgement call here at all - lead is not allowed. I'd think you could allow the teams to remove their lead safely and compete without it under 2c - but what counts as "remove it safely" is an ES judgement call.

Tungsten weights are readily available - there's no need for anyone to be handling lead.
Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
I also found the lead ban to be rather harsh, considering there are plenty of ways to safely handle lead (and we're already fine with nichrome wire out in the open...).
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

User avatar
CookiePie1
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 388
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 5:05 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Location: South Brunswick
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by CookiePie1 » January 30th, 2019, 2:23 pm

ScottMaurer19 wrote:
knightmoves wrote:
Flavorflav wrote:Speaking of safety checks, can we talk about lead? I had two devices that used lead weights, and given the wording of 3j I had to consider them to have violated the safety clause in 2c, which means participation only. Does that strike anyone else as unnecessarily harsh?
3j explicitly calls out lead as not being permitted. There's no judgement call here at all - lead is not allowed. I'd think you could allow the teams to remove their lead safely and compete without it under 2c - but what counts as "remove it safely" is an ES judgement call.

Tungsten weights are readily available - there's no need for anyone to be handling lead.
Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
If anything, students can ask around and see if their physics teachers have masses, which are readily available in my school. In the worst-case scenario students could even just fill a water bottle with sand if they really needed to.
South Brunswick High School Captain '22
2020 Events: Protein Modeling, Ping Pong Parachute, Wright Stuff, Sounds of Music

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
-Albert Einstein

Check out my userpage!

User avatar
TheSquaad
Member
Member
Posts: 164
Joined: March 18th, 2017, 5:14 pm
Division: Grad
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Event Supervising

Post by TheSquaad » January 30th, 2019, 3:03 pm

CookiePie1 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote:
knightmoves wrote:
3j explicitly calls out lead as not being permitted. There's no judgement call here at all - lead is not allowed. I'd think you could allow the teams to remove their lead safely and compete without it under 2c - but what counts as "remove it safely" is an ES judgement call.

Tungsten weights are readily available - there's no need for anyone to be handling lead.
Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
If anything, students can ask around and see if their physics teachers have masses, which are readily available in my school. In the worst-case scenario students could even just fill a water bottle with sand if they really needed to.
An even easier solution is to get 4 rolls of 50 pennies. They weigh a bit over 500g, are fairly compact, and are probably the cheapest weight you’re going to find.

marty3
Member
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: March 1st, 2011, 12:20 am
Division: Grad
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Event Supervising

Post by marty3 » January 30th, 2019, 3:22 pm

TheSquaad wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
If anything, students can ask around and see if their physics teachers have masses, which are readily available in my school. In the worst-case scenario students could even just fill a water bottle with sand if they really needed to.
An even easier solution is to get 4 rolls of 50 pennies. They weigh a bit over 500g, are fairly compact, and are probably the cheapest weight you’re going to find.
The best weight I've ever seen at a tournament was a stack of Science Olympiad medals. It probably cost the competitors less than $2 to put together, and the medals are presumably not made of lead. I deemed it safe.

User avatar
windu34
Staff Emeritus
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 1364
Joined: April 19th, 2015, 6:37 pm
Division: Grad
State: FL
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by windu34 » January 30th, 2019, 3:36 pm

TheSquaad wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
ScottMaurer19 wrote: Tungsten may be available but I have not been able to find 500g masses that aren't extremely expensive.
If anything, students can ask around and see if their physics teachers have masses, which are readily available in my school. In the worst-case scenario students could even just fill a water bottle with sand if they really needed to.
An even easier solution is to get 4 rolls of 50 pennies. They weigh a bit over 500g, are fairly compact, and are probably the cheapest weight you’re going to find.
+1 to the pennies
Boca Raton Community High School Alumni
Florida Science Olympiad Board of Directors
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Member
kevin@floridascienceolympiad.org || windu34's Userpage

User avatar
PM2017
Member
Member
Posts: 522
Joined: January 20th, 2017, 5:02 pm
Division: Grad
State: CA
Location: Enjoying College! :D
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by PM2017 » January 30th, 2019, 3:37 pm

marty3 wrote:
TheSquaad wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
If anything, students can ask around and see if their physics teachers have masses, which are readily available in my school. In the worst-case scenario students could even just fill a water bottle with sand if they really needed to.
An even easier solution is to get 4 rolls of 50 pennies. They weigh a bit over 500g, are fairly compact, and are probably the cheapest weight you’re going to find.
The best weight I've ever seen at a tournament was a stack of Science Olympiad medals. It probably cost the competitors less than $2 to put together, and the medals are presumably not made of lead. I deemed it safe.
This makes me hurt on the inside...
West High '19
UC Berkeley '23

Go Bears!

nicholasmaurer
Coach
Coach
Posts: 417
Joined: May 19th, 2017, 10:55 am
Division: Grad
State: OH
Location: Solon, OH
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by nicholasmaurer » January 30th, 2019, 3:44 pm

Flavorflav wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
Flavorflav wrote:Just ran regional yesterday with an impound, and I honestly have no idea how anyone does it without an impound unless the competition is tiny. One of my assistants had run a fairly large invitational without impound, and he said it was a nightmare. If a lot of teams use their thirty minute setup (and all the good ones do), that only leaves you twenty minutes to run the whole block. Sure, some are over in a second, but quite a few run the full three minutes and sometimes you have to go to video to make a call. Four decent devices is about the max you can count on doing in twenty minutes in my experience.
We avoid this scheduling problem by putting people into 15 minutes blocks at the Solon HS invitational.

The simplest reason to not do impound until State Tournaments is because the rules say not to...
One team per block? That could accommodate at most thirty teams if you give supervisors a lunch break, and since you'd virtually always have more than one thing going on at a time you would need a minimum of five supervisors. I don't think you can do a decent job of judging a complicated device with less than four pairs of eyes, and you need another person to be watching the team setting up, and you are giving a huge advantage to the later teams as I suggested above.
No, we run 15 minutes blocks with 3 teams/block. The whole operation will require 15-20 volunteers if you include judges, timers, and score entry.
Assistant Coach and Alumnus ('14) - Solon High School Science Olympiad
Tournament Director - Northeast Ohio Regional Tournament
Tournament Director - Solon High School Science Olympiad Invitational

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

Flavorflav
Member
Member
Posts: 1376
Joined: February 5th, 2006, 7:06 am
Division: Grad
State: NY
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Event Supervising

Post by Flavorflav » January 31st, 2019, 8:00 am

nicholasmaurer wrote:
Flavorflav wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
We avoid this scheduling problem by putting people into 15 minutes blocks at the Solon HS invitational.

The simplest reason to not do impound until State Tournaments is because the rules say not to...
One team per block? That could accommodate at most thirty teams if you give supervisors a lunch break, and since you'd virtually always have more than one thing going on at a time you would need a minimum of five supervisors. I don't think you can do a decent job of judging a complicated device with less than four pairs of eyes, and you need another person to be watching the team setting up, and you are giving a huge advantage to the later teams as I suggested above.
No, we run 15 minutes blocks with 3 teams/block. The whole operation will require 15-20 volunteers if you include judges, timers, and score entry.
15-20? Lol. You live in a different world, my friend.

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4262
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Event Supervising

Post by Unome » January 31st, 2019, 8:41 am

Flavorflav wrote:
nicholasmaurer wrote:
Flavorflav wrote: One team per block? That could accommodate at most thirty teams if you give supervisors a lunch break, and since you'd virtually always have more than one thing going on at a time you would need a minimum of five supervisors. I don't think you can do a decent job of judging a complicated device with less than four pairs of eyes, and you need another person to be watching the team setting up, and you are giving a huge advantage to the later teams as I suggested above.
No, we run 15 minutes blocks with 3 teams/block. The whole operation will require 15-20 volunteers if you include judges, timers, and score entry.
15-20? Lol. You live in a different world, my friend.
That was my thought... I last ran Mission with 2 people to help.
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

Locked

Return to “Mission Possible C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest