Thermodynamics B/C

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sabrina
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by sabrina » December 7th, 2018, 1:02 pm

Hi! New to this event and was wondering if you have any tips on ways to study and get better?
Thanks!

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by TheMysteriousMapMan » December 10th, 2018, 9:10 am

sabrina wrote:Hi! New to this event and was wondering if you have any tips on ways to study and get better?
Thanks!
Hi, and welcome to the forums! First of all, make sure your device is good, but the test is still 55% of your grade, so make sure that you study. Here are some resources from an earlier poster in the thread that I have used both this year and last year!
CookiePie1 wrote:[hide]
MattChina wrote:
Raphael wrote:What might be a great site to research for thermodynamics?
I am new to this event so I need some help with the study material.
hyperphysics
[/hide]
Khan academy is a good introduction to thermodynamics, and Hyperphysics is good for specific topics you're unsure about. Also, there is really nothing wrong with wikipedia. The scioly wiki for thermo is also a good read.

Hyperphysics
Khan Academy
Wikipedia page
Scioly wiki page
Device-wise, you should also test a lot to get a good handle on prediction.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by didntstart » December 14th, 2018, 12:54 pm

For d v. on the written test what are we supposed to study? Is only the carnot cycle necessary or are there other common cycles that will be seen on tests?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by CPScienceDude » December 14th, 2018, 4:37 pm

didntstart wrote:For d v. on the written test what are we supposed to study? Is only the carnot cycle necessary or are there other common cycles that will be seen on tests?
The rules say "Thermodynamic laws and processes (e.g., Carnot cycle and efficiency, adiabatic, isothermal)" found in 4dv. So I interpreted it as the Carnot Cycle as just an example. So I'd study more cycles than just the Carnot Cycle. This is my 1st year on the event, though. However, I do have an invitational tomorrow, so i'll report back and see if there was more.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » December 14th, 2018, 8:12 pm

CPScienceDude wrote:
didntstart wrote:For d v. on the written test what are we supposed to study? Is only the carnot cycle necessary or are there other common cycles that will be seen on tests?
The rules say "Thermodynamic laws and processes (e.g., Carnot cycle and efficiency, adiabatic, isothermal)" found in 4dv. So I interpreted it as the Carnot Cycle as just an example. So I'd study more cycles than just the Carnot Cycle. This is my 1st year on the event, though. However, I do have an invitational tomorrow, so i'll report back and see if there was more.

-CPScienceDude
The Thermodynamics tests I've taken haven't had other cycles, but I would definitely recommend looking at more cycles anyway.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by jgrischow1 » December 15th, 2018, 12:40 pm

chalker wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm having trouble determining the meaning of rule 5D1, which requires competitors to have data spanning "at least one variable range listed in 4.Part I.a".

To me, a variable range is a high value and a low value and all of the possible values in between for a given variable. For example, 60 degrees to 90 degrees celcius. However, the variables listed in 4.Part I.a are just the time and the possible volumes, which means that for Division B, the only acceptable variable range they can "span" is the volume range from 75 to 125. Why not just say that Division B must have data spanning from 75 to 125 mL? It seems extraordinarily confusing and unnecessary, especially considering Division C could span the "20 to 30 minutes" listed in 4.Part I.a. Furthermore, teams that are only preparing for regionals don't need volume measurements at any volume except 100 mL.

I know this isn't the place for FAQs, but I believe that portal hasn't opened yet on soinc.org. Any other interpretations about what this means, and what must be done to span "at least one variable range"?
What you are seeing is the result of us trying to avoid having 2 sets of the rules, one for Div B and one for Div C. We have limited space in the rules and sometimes cut corners a little bit on explaining things that are different between the divisions.

Note however, that just because the competition itself is limited to a specific volume or temperature or time range, that doesn't mean you can't do testing ahead of time using a range of those and present that data on the charts.
So we are still trying to wrap our heads around the Division B graph/table. Since volume and time don't change for B, to me, the most useful chart would be a table, not a graph, of, for example, a certain starting temp (like 60 C), 100 mL volume, and "number of trial" in one column and "ending temp" in the other. Would this satisfy the scoring requirements? Any advice is appreciated.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by CPScienceDude » December 16th, 2018, 12:58 pm

jgrischow1 wrote:
chalker wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm having trouble determining the meaning of rule 5D1, which requires competitors to have data spanning "at least one variable range listed in 4.Part I.a".

To me, a variable range is a high value and a low value and all of the possible values in between for a given variable. For example, 60 degrees to 90 degrees celcius. However, the variables listed in 4.Part I.a are just the time and the possible volumes, which means that for Division B, the only acceptable variable range they can "span" is the volume range from 75 to 125. Why not just say that Division B must have data spanning from 75 to 125 mL? It seems extraordinarily confusing and unnecessary, especially considering Division C could span the "20 to 30 minutes" listed in 4.Part I.a. Furthermore, teams that are only preparing for regionals don't need volume measurements at any volume except 100 mL.

I know this isn't the place for FAQs, but I believe that portal hasn't opened yet on soinc.org. Any other interpretations about what this means, and what must be done to span "at least one variable range"?
What you are seeing is the result of us trying to avoid having 2 sets of the rules, one for Div B and one for Div C. We have limited space in the rules and sometimes cut corners a little bit on explaining things that are different between the divisions.

Note however, that just because the competition itself is limited to a specific volume or temperature or time range, that doesn't mean you can't do testing ahead of time using a range of those and present that data on the charts.
So we are still trying to wrap our heads around the Division B graph/table. Since volume and time don't change for B, to me, the most useful chart would be a table, not a graph, of, for example, a certain starting temp (like 60 C), 100 mL volume, and "number of trial" in one column and "ending temp" in the other. Would this satisfy the scoring requirements? Any advice is appreciated.
What I did was made my chart a relationship between temperature and time. I had an invitational on Saturday and my coach is giving us our tests and stuff back on Tuesday. I'll let you know if that worked out.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by fleicol1 » December 19th, 2018, 12:28 pm

What are all of the equations that you guys have seen on the thermo tests and what are some good videos for some of the equations?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » December 19th, 2018, 1:25 pm

fleicol1 wrote:What are all of the equations that you guys have seen on the thermo tests and what are some good videos for some of the equations?
Some important principles to look at are specific heat, latent heat, the ideal gas law, Boyle's law, Charles's law, Gay-Lussac's law, the combined gas law, work done by a gas, the 1st Law of Thermodynamics, etc.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C

Post by jaah5211 » December 22nd, 2018, 2:07 pm

fleicol1 wrote:What are all of the equations that you guys have seen on the thermo tests and what are some good videos for some of the equations?
change in internal energy equations, gas laws, conduction and radiation equations (like Fourier's law and Stephan's equation), work, enthalpy and entropy. Those are the most common ones that I have seen so far.
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