Thermodynamics B/C Build

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 3rd, 2019, 3:11 pm

I feel like I asked this question before but does the thickness of the material of the insulating device matter significantly in retaining the heat?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby MadCow2357 » February 3rd, 2019, 3:40 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:I feel like I asked this question before but does the thickness of the material of the insulating device matter significantly in retaining the heat?

Yes, I recall you asking the question, and yes the thickness of the material matters.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CPScienceDude » February 3rd, 2019, 3:47 pm

MadCow2357 wrote:
geniusjohn5 wrote:I feel like I asked this question before but does the thickness of the material of the insulating device matter significantly in retaining the heat?

Yes, I recall you asking the question, and yes the thickness of the material matters.

Yes me too. But generally the thinner and more layers you can get the better. More layers you can get the better.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 3rd, 2019, 6:30 pm

CPScienceDude wrote:
MadCow2357 wrote:
geniusjohn5 wrote:I feel like I asked this question before but does the thickness of the material of the insulating device matter significantly in retaining the heat?

Yes, I recall you asking the question, and yes the thickness of the material matters.

Yes me too. But generally the thinner and more layers you can get the better. More layers you can get the better.


Can you explain why a thinner material is better?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CPScienceDude » February 3rd, 2019, 6:36 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:
MadCow2357 wrote:Yes, I recall you asking the question, and yes the thickness of the material matters.

Yes me too. But generally the thinner and more layers you can get the better. More layers you can get the better.


Can you explain why a thinner material is better?

It’s not better because it’s thinner, but because you can get more layers in.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby olhs4n6 » February 4th, 2019, 3:12 pm

I'm looking into 3D printing my box (we just attended Solon and saw some of the top teams used 3D printed boxes). I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to go about it and/or any precautions. Last year I remember someone advised me to not use a 3D printer, but I was wondering why. Thanks in advance!

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CaTaStRoPhY » February 5th, 2019, 6:15 am

On Saturday during the regionals, the supervisors poured 71C hot water into a graduated cylinder before pouring it into our beaker. We didn't account for this at all when we did our trials. I was surprised that our prediction was still good. I expected the initial temperature to drop dramatically because of the heat lost to the graduated cylinder and then also the beaker.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CPScienceDude » February 5th, 2019, 6:17 am

CaTaStRoPhY wrote:On Saturday during the regionals, the supervisors poured 71C hot water into a graduated cylinder before pouring it into our beaker. We didn't account for this at all when we did our trials. I was surprised that our prediction was still good. I expected the initial temperature to drop dramatically because of the heat lost to the graduated cylinder and then also the beaker.

That is strange. I’ve been basing my predictions off after the water is poured, though. Maybe the cylinder was warm? Idk.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CaTaStRoPhY » February 5th, 2019, 6:22 am

CPScienceDude wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:On Saturday during the regionals, the supervisors poured 71C hot water into a graduated cylinder before pouring it into our beaker. We didn't account for this at all when we did our trials. I was surprised that our prediction was still good. I expected the initial temperature to drop dramatically because of the heat lost to the graduated cylinder and then also the beaker.

That is strange. I’ve been basing my predictions off after the water is poured, though. Maybe the cylinder was warm? Idk.


Yeah, my first temperature measurement was two minutes after pouring the water. And my partner said the same about the cylinder being warm too. But it just bothers me.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby TheChiScientist » February 5th, 2019, 4:23 pm

CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:On Saturday during the regionals, the supervisors poured 71C hot water into a graduated cylinder before pouring it into our beaker. We didn't account for this at all when we did our trials. I was surprised that our prediction was still good. I expected the initial temperature to drop dramatically because of the heat lost to the graduated cylinder and then also the beaker.

That is strange. I’ve been basing my predictions off after the water is poured, though. Maybe the cylinder was warm? Idk.


Yeah, my first temperature measurement was two minutes after pouring the water. And my partner said the same about the cylinder being warm too. But it just bothers me.

You people are forgetting a major aspect here. :P Note that any box built reasonably well built will reach thermal equilibrium. At this point temperature loss is nearly irrelevant as it's so low. I've encountered this multiple times but you must account for it as it will make your values higher.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CPScienceDude » February 5th, 2019, 4:27 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:That is strange. I’ve been basing my predictions off after the water is poured, though. Maybe the cylinder was warm? Idk.


Yeah, my first temperature measurement was two minutes after pouring the water. And my partner said the same about the cylinder being warm too. But it just bothers me.

You people are forgetting a major aspect here. :P Note that any box built reasonably well built will reach thermal equilibrium. At this point temperature loss is nearly irrelevant as it's so low. I've encountered this multiple times but you must account for it as it will make your values higher.

Huh, my equation is never more than 1.5 degrees off
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CaTaStRoPhY » February 5th, 2019, 4:30 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:That is strange. I’ve been basing my predictions off after the water is poured, though. Maybe the cylinder was warm? Idk.


Yeah, my first temperature measurement was two minutes after pouring the water. And my partner said the same about the cylinder being warm too. But it just bothers me.

You people are forgetting a major aspect here. :P Note that any box built reasonably well built will reach thermal equilibrium. At this point temperature loss is nearly irrelevant as it's so low. I've encountered this multiple times but you must account for it as it will make your values higher.



Ooooh okay. So no matter what, my equation should work, right? I mean transferring water from one container to another shouldn't matter right?

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby TheChiScientist » February 5th, 2019, 4:49 pm

CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
Yeah, my first temperature measurement was two minutes after pouring the water. And my partner said the same about the cylinder being warm too. But it just bothers me.

You people are forgetting a major aspect here. :P Note that any box built reasonably well built will reach thermal equilibrium. At this point temperature loss is nearly irrelevant as it's so low. I've encountered this multiple times but you must account for it as it will make your values higher.



Ooooh okay. So no matter what, my equation should work, right? I mean transferring water from one container to another shouldn't matter right?

Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CookiePie1 » February 5th, 2019, 5:02 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:You people are forgetting a major aspect here. :P Note that any box built reasonably well built will reach thermal equilibrium. At this point temperature loss is nearly irrelevant as it's so low. I've encountered this multiple times but you must account for it as it will make your values higher.



Ooooh okay. So no matter what, my equation should work, right? I mean transferring water from one container to another shouldn't matter right?

Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.


I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CPScienceDude » February 5th, 2019, 5:03 pm

CookiePie1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:

Ooooh okay. So no matter what, my equation should work, right? I mean transferring water from one container to another shouldn't matter right?

Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.


I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...

Well my equation is based on the trials and has so far proved to be very reliable.
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