Thermodynamics B/C Build

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ElPotato
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby ElPotato » February 5th, 2019, 5:36 pm

CookiePie1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:

Ooooh okay. So no matter what, my equation should work, right? I mean transferring water from one container to another shouldn't matter right?

Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.


I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...


I agree, I've always used trials. Equations assume that your box is pretty ideal, and imo they don't take into account all the random discrepancies that can occur during competition.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CaTaStRoPhY » February 5th, 2019, 5:53 pm

CPScienceDude wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.


I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...

Well my equation is based on the trials and has so far proved to be very reliable.


Yeah same. I haven't tried to predict the final temperature solely based on trials. It doesn't account for room temperature changes.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby TheChiScientist » February 5th, 2019, 6:01 pm

CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...

Well my equation is based on the trials and has so far proved to be very reliable.


Yeah same. I haven't tried to predict the final temperature solely based on trials. It doesn't account for room temperature changes.

Note that room temperature changes are normally irrelevant to the degree that unless your room in 100F or 0F you have no need to worry.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » February 5th, 2019, 6:09 pm

TheChiScientist wrote:
CaTaStRoPhY wrote:
CPScienceDude wrote:Well my equation is based on the trials and has so far proved to be very reliable.


Yeah same. I haven't tried to predict the final temperature solely based on trials. It doesn't account for room temperature changes.

Note that room temperature changes are normally irrelevant to the degree that unless your room in 100F or 0F you have no need to worry.

Confirming, I adjusted room temp from around 22-26 degrees Celsius and it had no measurable effect as far as I could tell

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby olhs4n6 » February 5th, 2019, 6:10 pm

ElPotato wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
TheChiScientist wrote:Well to a degree. You have heat loss and then that heat loss increases to a point when water is transferred multiple times. So it can depend on the situation.


I still don't believe in equations and I say it's better to just go based on trials. It might work, but it probably won't...


I agree, I've always used trials. Equations assume that your box is pretty ideal, and imo they don't take into account all the random discrepancies that can occur during competition.



I have also used trials both years I've been in the event, and I've never been more than a degree or two at most. They're more reliable especially when you can account for timing difficulties. At our state tournament the event supervisors didn't start timing until we made our predictions, but they wouldn't let us predict until 2 minutes had already passed. I feel like the trials would definitely work better in weird cases like this, but to be fair, I've never tried an equation.

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2 simple auestions need answers

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 7th, 2019, 4:53 pm

1. Can we put the cotton swab in the hole of our device DURING the actual cooling down process? 2. How many graphs do we need?
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Re: 2 simple auestions need answers

Postby olhs4n6 » February 7th, 2019, 5:05 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:1. Can we put the cotton swab in the hole of our device DURING the actual cooling down process? 2. How many graphs do we need?



1. In the competitions I've been in, you put a cotton ball inside the hole of the device during the entirety of the cooling process.
2. The rules say: 2 points for including data spanning at least one variable range, 2 points for including at least 10 data points in each data series, 2 points for proper labeling (e.g. title, team name, units) and 0.5 points for each graph or table turned in (up to 2 points total as long as they are not the same) (so 4 total graphs)

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 7th, 2019, 6:37 pm

What are the standard units for using the Newton's Law of cooling? Especially for the K value? Should it be in seconds, hours, minutes?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » February 7th, 2019, 6:42 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:What are the standard units for using the Newton's Law of cooling? Especially for the K value? Should it be in seconds, hours, minutes?

Probably seconds, but you can switch to whatever's convenient

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Re: 2 simple auestions need answers

Postby C8H10N4O2! » February 8th, 2019, 11:29 am

olhs4n6 wrote:
geniusjohn5 wrote:1. Can we put the cotton swab in the hole of our device DURING the actual cooling down process? 2. How many graphs do we need?



1. In the competitions I've been in, you put a cotton ball inside the hole of the device during the entirety of the cooling process.
2. The rules say: 2 points for including data spanning at least one variable range, 2 points for including at least 10 data points in each data series, 2 points for proper labeling (e.g. title, team name, units) and 0.5 points for each graph or table turned in (up to 2 points total as long as they are not the same) (so 4 total graphs)

You just need 4 data sets, so basically 4 trials. I combined them all into a graph, but that is not required. The rules say graphs/charts (or something similar to that, but you can have charts)

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 8th, 2019, 8:06 pm

Dumb question but does the impounded box have to be 15 x 15 x 15 cm or does just the thermo device have to be within those dimensions and the impounded box can possess whatever dimensions?
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby CookiePie1 » February 8th, 2019, 8:19 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:Dumb question but does the impounded box have to be 15 x 15 x 15 cm or does just the thermo device have to be within those dimensions and the impounded box can possess whatever dimensions?


The impounded box and the device are the same thing? If you're talking about your other materials, you're not limited to 15x15x15. Just the device.
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby geniusjohn5 » February 8th, 2019, 8:39 pm

CookiePie1 wrote:
geniusjohn5 wrote:Dumb question but does the impounded box have to be 15 x 15 x 15 cm or does just the thermo device have to be within those dimensions and the impounded box can possess whatever dimensions?


The impounded box and the device are the same thing? If you're talking about your other materials, you're not limited to 15x15x15. Just the device.


Ok so it's not let I have to put my thermo device inside another box? I'm just acting super paranoid haha
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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » February 8th, 2019, 8:45 pm

geniusjohn5 wrote:
CookiePie1 wrote:
geniusjohn5 wrote:Dumb question but does the impounded box have to be 15 x 15 x 15 cm or does just the thermo device have to be within those dimensions and the impounded box can possess whatever dimensions?


The impounded box and the device are the same thing? If you're talking about your other materials, you're not limited to 15x15x15. Just the device.


Ok so it's not let I have to put my thermo device inside another box? I'm just acting super paranoid haha

You can put it in a box if you want; mine was in a box last year. Be sure you label both boxes with your team name and team number though.

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Re: Thermodynamics B/C Build

Postby stevieb711 » February 9th, 2019, 1:48 pm

Is a k-value of -.00749 any good? Honestly I have no idea


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