2022 Nationals

We're looking forward to the tournament at Arizona State!
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by GoldenKnight1 »

It has been discussed above about the Risk/Reward for the various teams and their school districts, but what about the hosting University? With many of them being unsure what the Fall Semester will exactly look like they may not want to commit to something in May like an event like this. Think of the liability they could possibly open themselves up to. And for what? Yes they would get there name out there but is that reward overcoming their own risk and I don’t just mean people getting sick but bad PR and lawsuits as well. It is just easier for universities to pass for this year and see what the future holds after this year.

Also the host university would need to spend a lot of time starting before now to prepare for May 2022, so wait-and-see approach wouldn’t work if they wanted to host it. But people might be unwilling to volunteer that kind of time in planning if there is a chance the event gets canceled.
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by pb5754 »

GoldenKnight1 wrote: May 16th, 2021, 4:22 am It has been discussed above about the Risk/Reward for the various teams and their school districts, but what about the hosting University? With many of them being unsure what the Fall Semester will exactly look like they may not want to commit to something in May like an event like this. Think of the liability they could possibly open themselves up to. And for what? Yes they would get there name out there but is that reward overcoming their own risk and I don’t just mean people getting sick but bad PR and lawsuits as well. It is just easier for universities to pass for this year and see what the future holds after this year.

Also the host university would need to spend a lot of time starting before now to prepare for May 2022, so wait-and-see approach wouldn’t work if they wanted to host it. But people might be unwilling to volunteer that kind of time in planning if there is a chance the event gets canceled.
This would make sense. But I haven't really seen it be given as a reason from what I've seen, so I feel that this is not the case? If it were the case, it would definitely be a much stronger case for virtual nationals and I don't understand why it wouldn't have been brought up already. :?:
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by mnoga »

sciolyperson1 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 3:01 pm As I've stated before in the discord, vaccinations and policies are distinct; although x% (as cited above, 70%) of adults would be vaccinated by this July 4th, districts are likely to implement bans on out-of-state travel, as travel by plane is significantly more dangerous than travel by bus. This means that even if everyone participating at the competition is vaccinated, their district may not allow them to attend.

I fully agree that online tournaments don't have the same appeal as in-person tournaments. However, I suspect that many invitational, regional, and state competitions will remain in-person due to the lack of out-of-state travel involved with lower levels of competitions. In addition, I suspect that some invitational tournaments may prohibit out-of-state teams from competing - however, these would likely be smaller invitationals, rather than larger ones such as MIT.

The size of the campus is not the issue. National competition locations are chosen way more than one year in advance. I believe that there are plans in place to be able to transition to an in-person national tournament, only if necessary.

The decision, although not the one many competitors have wanted, is a responsible one; although it may seem early, tournaments must set a precedent for other invitational tournaments which may host out-of-state teams. Although the fun and appeal of in-person tournaments may not be there, safety should always be the first priority.

I hope that moving forward, competitors should begin to understand why this decision was made. As a tournament director, hosting a tournament isn't as simple as setting up Scilympiad - months and months of work go into making the competition possible. Please be respectful to the directors and people involved with the tournament, as I am sure they are just as disappointed as you may be.
"Travel by plane is more dangerous than bus" ... please explain because traveling by car statistically is much more dangerous than traveling by commercial aircraft. And if you are referring to possible transmission of the virus aboard a plane vs a bus, then a commercial aircraft's HEPA air filtration and air exchange rate and airflow direction are far superior to that of the average motor coach.

In all likelihood the most dangerous thing students will face taking a trip to Southern California, will be traveling on freeways like the 405, 210, and 5.
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Unome (May 22nd, 2021, 1:36 pm)
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by Unome »

mnoga wrote: May 21st, 2021, 10:14 pm
sciolyperson1 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 3:01 pm As I've stated before in the discord, vaccinations and policies are distinct; although x% (as cited above, 70%) of adults would be vaccinated by this July 4th, districts are likely to implement bans on out-of-state travel, as travel by plane is significantly more dangerous than travel by bus. This means that even if everyone participating at the competition is vaccinated, their district may not allow them to attend.

I fully agree that online tournaments don't have the same appeal as in-person tournaments. However, I suspect that many invitational, regional, and state competitions will remain in-person due to the lack of out-of-state travel involved with lower levels of competitions. In addition, I suspect that some invitational tournaments may prohibit out-of-state teams from competing - however, these would likely be smaller invitationals, rather than larger ones such as MIT.

The size of the campus is not the issue. National competition locations are chosen way more than one year in advance. I believe that there are plans in place to be able to transition to an in-person national tournament, only if necessary.

The decision, although not the one many competitors have wanted, is a responsible one; although it may seem early, tournaments must set a precedent for other invitational tournaments which may host out-of-state teams. Although the fun and appeal of in-person tournaments may not be there, safety should always be the first priority.

I hope that moving forward, competitors should begin to understand why this decision was made. As a tournament director, hosting a tournament isn't as simple as setting up Scilympiad - months and months of work go into making the competition possible. Please be respectful to the directors and people involved with the tournament, as I am sure they are just as disappointed as you may be.
"Travel by plane is more dangerous than bus" ... please explain because traveling by car statistically is much more dangerous than traveling by commercial aircraft. And if you are referring to possible transmission of the virus aboard a plane vs a bus, then a commercial aircraft's HEPA air filtration and air exchange rate and airflow direction are far superior to that of the average motor coach.

In all likelihood the most dangerous thing students will face taking a trip to Southern California, will be traveling on freeways like the 405, 210, and 5.
Yeah, ultimately it's not about whether it's particularly safe to do so, it's about the fact that there's significantly more pressure on school boards/etc. to restrict accessory activity than there is for a return to normal. Nationals and/or Caltech has to take that into account.

(also, another plausible factor is that the host university shells out a sizable quantity to sponsor a National Tournament, and Covid has hit budgets hard)
Last edited by Unome on May 22nd, 2021, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by mnoga »

Unome wrote: May 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm
mnoga wrote: May 21st, 2021, 10:14 pm
sciolyperson1 wrote: May 8th, 2021, 3:01 pm As I've stated before in the discord, vaccinations and policies are distinct; although x% (as cited above, 70%) of adults would be vaccinated by this July 4th, districts are likely to implement bans on out-of-state travel, as travel by plane is significantly more dangerous than travel by bus. This means that even if everyone participating at the competition is vaccinated, their district may not allow them to attend.

I fully agree that online tournaments don't have the same appeal as in-person tournaments. However, I suspect that many invitational, regional, and state competitions will remain in-person due to the lack of out-of-state travel involved with lower levels of competitions. In addition, I suspect that some invitational tournaments may prohibit out-of-state teams from competing - however, these would likely be smaller invitationals, rather than larger ones such as MIT.

The size of the campus is not the issue. National competition locations are chosen way more than one year in advance. I believe that there are plans in place to be able to transition to an in-person national tournament, only if necessary.

The decision, although not the one many competitors have wanted, is a responsible one; although it may seem early, tournaments must set a precedent for other invitational tournaments which may host out-of-state teams. Although the fun and appeal of in-person tournaments may not be there, safety should always be the first priority.

I hope that moving forward, competitors should begin to understand why this decision was made. As a tournament director, hosting a tournament isn't as simple as setting up Scilympiad - months and months of work go into making the competition possible. Please be respectful to the directors and people involved with the tournament, as I am sure they are just as disappointed as you may be.
"Travel by plane is more dangerous than bus" ... please explain because traveling by car statistically is much more dangerous than traveling by commercial aircraft. And if you are referring to possible transmission of the virus aboard a plane vs a bus, then a commercial aircraft's HEPA air filtration and air exchange rate and airflow direction are far superior to that of the average motor coach.

In all likelihood the most dangerous thing students will face taking a trip to Southern California, will be traveling on freeways like the 405, 210, and 5.
Yeah, ultimately it's not about whether it's particularly safe to do so, it's about the fact that there's significantly more pressure on school boards/etc. to restrict accessory activity than there is for a return to normal. Nationals and/or Caltech has to take that into account.

(also, another plausible factor is that the host university shells out a sizable quantity to sponsor a National Tournament, and Covid has hit budgets hard)

I believe there has been waning interest in Science Olympiad this year due to the virtual nature of the events and suppression of extra-curricular activities at high and middle schools. Moving forward I believe it is imperative that regionals/states/nationals be in person events if at all feasible. I'm not privy to budgets and how expensive it is to run state and national events, but streamline and simplify to lower costs.
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Unome (May 23rd, 2021, 2:55 pm)
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by Kylari04 »

I agree with mnoga. However, I also know that safety is the number one priority for all Science Olympaid activities, so I understand that the national board wants to be cautious. I hope that the COVID case counts start dropping soon so that schools can open up. Everything seems like it's slowly reopening (e.g. the Dodgers are allowing 100% capacity at their games), so we'll see how it goes, and hopefully, the board is watching too!
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by bagman78 »

I agree with Kylar on this one to try for in-person Nationals. High chance Covid will be totally gone on nearly totally gone by this time next year. At a minimum the decision for in-person/online should be delayed as long as possible until a clearer picture emerges. Enthusiasm may wane and some schools may drop their SO program if it continues online only.
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by Unome »

mnoga wrote: May 22nd, 2021, 10:28 pm
Unome wrote: May 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm
mnoga wrote: May 21st, 2021, 10:14 pm

"Travel by plane is more dangerous than bus" ... please explain because traveling by car statistically is much more dangerous than traveling by commercial aircraft. And if you are referring to possible transmission of the virus aboard a plane vs a bus, then a commercial aircraft's HEPA air filtration and air exchange rate and airflow direction are far superior to that of the average motor coach.

In all likelihood the most dangerous thing students will face taking a trip to Southern California, will be traveling on freeways like the 405, 210, and 5.
Yeah, ultimately it's not about whether it's particularly safe to do so, it's about the fact that there's significantly more pressure on school boards/etc. to restrict accessory activity than there is for a return to normal. Nationals and/or Caltech has to take that into account.

(also, another plausible factor is that the host university shells out a sizable quantity to sponsor a National Tournament, and Covid has hit budgets hard)

I believe there has been waning interest in Science Olympiad this year due to the virtual nature of the events and suppression of extra-curricular activities at high and middle schools. Moving forward I believe it is imperative that regionals/states/nationals be in person events if at all feasible. I'm not privy to budgets and how expensive it is to run state and national events, but streamline and simplify to lower costs.
I'm definitely in agreement that this should be important - in fact I'm planning on making a discussion thread for recovering team registrations and the like next year once Nationals is over. But, it's something that's much easier to accomplish at the point of state, regional, and invitational tournaments, which can and do run on minimal budgets and are easier to shift around (standard disclaimer that it depends on the state, circumstances, etc.).

While I've never seen a budget personally, based on what I've read publically, I would estimate that the cost of a National tournament (including in-kind donations, which I've heard are the bulk of the host university expenses) comes out to somewhere in the range of half a million dollars or more.
Last edited by Unome on May 23rd, 2021, 3:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by bagman78 »

Too early to schedule 2022 Nationals online. Should wait to end of summer at least.
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Re: 2022 Nationals

Post by knightmoves »

mnoga wrote: May 21st, 2021, 10:14 pm "Travel by plane is more dangerous than bus" ... please explain because traveling by car statistically is much more dangerous than traveling by commercial aircraft. And if you are referring to possible transmission of the virus aboard a plane vs a bus, then a commercial aircraft's HEPA air filtration and air exchange rate and airflow direction are far superior to that of the average motor coach.
If you're on the team bus, you know who you're sharing air with. Science Olympiad teams, as a general rule, are not in the habit of chartering planes. Which means you have to trust some random selection of strangers.
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