Nosediving FF Kit

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klastyioer
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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by klastyioer » February 17th, 2019, 7:35 am

Rossyspsce wrote:
klastyioer wrote:at soup i saw quite a few ff kits doing the dutch roll thing
idk if it was the vents or not but all of them had the same rudder
soooo any ideas as to why this is happening?
What is Dutch roll
when the plane seems unstable and wobbles side to side
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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by fifty_missions » February 17th, 2019, 8:34 am

The fastest and easiest cure for the Dutch Roll (which also consumes energy) on the FF model is more fin area. Another would be adding some dihedral to wings or stab.

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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by bjt4888 » February 17th, 2019, 8:58 am

I agree with Fifty Missions, of course, for best fixes for Dutch Roll, and agree with Katy that Dutch Roll has a wobble or “tail wagging” character and agree with Coach Chuck that there is a little tail wagging in the video.

However, having seen quite a few FF kit airplanes fly at our local Invitational (34 teams, most with FF kits), I would add that I do see a little Roll tendency to the design and, if a little heavy in the tail or high in incidence, a little tailwobble, and a tendency to circle tight if setup with a little to little wing washin or too much rudder, but I’m actually ok with these flying characteristics. A little extra roll at the beginning of the flight is a strategy often used in low ceiling sites to reduce initial climb rate, allow a little more launch torque and increase duration, so the FF kit roll tendency can be used as a benefit.

Roll and tight turn is also helpful if your flying site is small and/ or drafty and I’m thinking that the wobble were seeing in the video (which Katy correctly clarified as possibly due to air currents; requiring no adjustment) could be trimmed out by slightly reduced wing incidence (as already mentioned by others) or, possibly, slight shift forward of CG. If your flying site has more room, though, duration is usually better with a little bigger flight circle.

Pretty good flight in the video though.

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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by Flyingfish » February 17th, 2019, 4:46 pm

Hello!

I am using an unmodified Freedom Flight kit airplane, but when I wind it up and launch (around 90 winds on a 1:15 winder), it nosedives and makes about half a circle before it hits the ground. What are the most likely reasons that this happens? I am very confused and would greatly appreciate any help.

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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by klastyioer » February 17th, 2019, 5:46 pm

Flyingfish wrote:Hello!

I am using an unmodified Freedom Flight kit airplane, but when I wind it up and launch (around 90 winds on a 1:15 winder), it nosedives and makes about half a circle before it hits the ground. What are the most likely reasons that this happens? I am very confused and would greatly appreciate any help.
do you know how wingposts work and how to adjust them? if not id gladly be able to help u trim the plane so that u can get it up in the air
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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by Flyingfish » February 17th, 2019, 5:48 pm

klastyioer wrote:
Flyingfish wrote:Hello!

I am using an unmodified Freedom Flight kit airplane, but when I wind it up and launch (around 90 winds on a 1:15 winder), it nosedives and makes about half a circle before it hits the ground. What are the most likely reasons that this happens? I am very confused and would greatly appreciate any help.
do you know how wingposts work and how to adjust them? if not id gladly be able to help u trim the plane so that u can get it up in the air
Wingposts are like the straw and carbon fiber sticks that are holding up the wings right? And they can be adjusted by sliding the smaller straw higher/lower? Which ones should I be adjusting?

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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by klastyioer » February 17th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Flyingfish wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
Flyingfish wrote:Hello!

I am using an unmodified Freedom Flight kit airplane, but when I wind it up and launch (around 90 winds on a 1:15 winder), it nosedives and makes about half a circle before it hits the ground. What are the most likely reasons that this happens? I am very confused and would greatly appreciate any help.
do you know how wingposts work and how to adjust them? if not id gladly be able to help u trim the plane so that u can get it up in the air
Wingposts are like the straw and carbon fiber sticks that are holding up the wings right? And they can be adjusted by sliding the smaller straw higher/lower? Which ones should I be adjusting?
so the wing posts are what im referring to on the wing and the stab posts or stabilizer posts are what im referring to on the stab

the front wing post should be higher than the back wing post. why? this generates lift and ppl on here call it angle of incidence. u measure it by measuring both of the posts above the straw or what should be plastic tubes in that kit and see what the difference is. the front should be longer and you can play around with it by adjusting up by millimeters at a time. you can also adjust the back wing post and bring that down to change the angle

the front stab post should be lower or level to the back stab post. reason being, if your wing cannot generate enough lift on its own, you will have to change the rubber thickness (thiccer the more power and less winds you can get out of it) to see if thats the issue. if its not the rubber and its the plane, you want the stab front post to be lower than the back. like the wing, you can change the front stab post by moving it down or the back stab post up.

the tandem design is interesting because theyre so similar in size, making them both possible lift factors for the plane. by adjusting each post by millimeters and playing around with it, your plane should theoretically start to lift. our of curiosity, could you provide rubber thiccness, length of one side of the motor or the length of the entirety of the loop, and how many winds u usually put in the plane (ik u mentioned 90 but idk if thats ur normal amount)

let me know if that helps!
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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by Flyingfish » February 17th, 2019, 6:04 pm

klastyioer wrote:
Flyingfish wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
do you know how wingposts work and how to adjust them? if not id gladly be able to help u trim the plane so that u can get it up in the air
Wingposts are like the straw and carbon fiber sticks that are holding up the wings right? And they can be adjusted by sliding the smaller straw higher/lower? Which ones should I be adjusting?
so the wing posts are what im referring to on the wing and the stab posts or stabilizer posts are what im referring to on the stab

the front wing post should be higher than the back wing post. why? this generates lift and ppl on here call it angle of incidence. u measure it by measuring both of the posts above the straw or what should be plastic tubes in that kit and see what the difference is. the front should be longer and you can play around with it by adjusting up by millimeters at a time. you can also adjust the back wing post and bring that down to change the angle

the front stab post should be lower or level to the back stab post. reason being, if your wing cannot generate enough lift on its own, you will have to change the rubber thickness (thiccer the more power and less winds you can get out of it) to see if thats the issue. if its not the rubber and its the plane, you want the stab front post to be lower than the back. like the wing, you can change the front stab post by moving it down or the back stab post up.

the tandem design is interesting because theyre so similar in size, making them both possible lift factors for the plane. by adjusting each post by millimeters and playing around with it, your plane should theoretically start to lift. our of curiosity, could you provide rubber thiccness, length of one side of the motor or the length of the entirety of the loop, and how many winds u usually put in the plane (ik u mentioned 90 but idk if thats ur normal amount)

let me know if that helps!
I've been using .102 rubber with about 39 cm on one side. Normally I put somewhere around 90, but it seems to nosedive every time no matter how much I put in. Thanks for the help! I'll be sure to test it out next time and let you know how it goes!

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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by klastyioer » February 17th, 2019, 6:16 pm

Flyingfish wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
Flyingfish wrote:
Wingposts are like the straw and carbon fiber sticks that are holding up the wings right? And they can be adjusted by sliding the smaller straw higher/lower? Which ones should I be adjusting?
so the wing posts are what im referring to on the wing and the stab posts or stabilizer posts are what im referring to on the stab

the front wing post should be higher than the back wing post. why? this generates lift and ppl on here call it angle of incidence. u measure it by measuring both of the posts above the straw or what should be plastic tubes in that kit and see what the difference is. the front should be longer and you can play around with it by adjusting up by millimeters at a time. you can also adjust the back wing post and bring that down to change the angle

the front stab post should be lower or level to the back stab post. reason being, if your wing cannot generate enough lift on its own, you will have to change the rubber thickness (thiccer the more power and less winds you can get out of it) to see if thats the issue. if its not the rubber and its the plane, you want the stab front post to be lower than the back. like the wing, you can change the front stab post by moving it down or the back stab post up.

the tandem design is interesting because theyre so similar in size, making them both possible lift factors for the plane. by adjusting each post by millimeters and playing around with it, your plane should theoretically start to lift. our of curiosity, could you provide rubber thiccness, length of one side of the motor or the length of the entirety of the loop, and how many winds u usually put in the plane (ik u mentioned 90 but idk if thats ur normal amount)

let me know if that helps!
I've been using .102 rubber with about 39 cm on one side. Normally I put somewhere around 90, but it seems to nosedive every time no matter how much I put in. Thanks for the help! I'll be sure to test it out next time and let you know how it goes!
so something idk if u know abt rubber, after like 7 tests its span starts to wear down so u wanna try to stick to fresh motors if u can.
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Re: Nosediving FF Kit

Post by bjt4888 » February 18th, 2019, 6:00 am

Flying fish,

Also verify that the left wing washin and left stabilizer panel washin is correct per the instructions. The description and pictures of this setting in the instructions of the FF kit are very good.

Brian T

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