Non-kit rules

BalsaFerret
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: February 6th, 2019, 4:35 am
Division: C
State: -

Non-kit rules

Postby BalsaFerret » February 12th, 2019, 8:26 am

Our state this year (or any year apparently) doesn't allow the use kits for competition. I'm wondering to what dictates as a true kit, if I can use the majority of the ffm kit and use homemade parts for the build?

User avatar
CrayolaCrayon
Member
Member
Posts: 183
Joined: October 25th, 2017, 8:24 am
Division: C
State: PA
Contact:

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby CrayolaCrayon » February 12th, 2019, 9:23 am

What state are you in? I thought all the rules were the same.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Image

Rossyspsce
Member
Member
Posts: 173
Joined: June 3rd, 2018, 5:32 pm
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby Rossyspsce » February 12th, 2019, 9:29 am

BalsaFerret wrote:Our state this year (or any year apparently) doesn't allow the use kits for competition. I'm wondering to what dictates as a true kit, if I can use the majority of the ffm kit and use homemade parts for the build?


What is the actual wording of the rule set?

jander14indoor
Member
Member
Posts: 1526
Joined: April 30th, 2007, 7:54 am
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby jander14indoor » February 12th, 2019, 9:58 am

Even when specifically allowed by the national rule?
Para 3.a "Airplanes may be constructed from published plans, commercial kits, and/or a student’s design. Kits must not contain any pre-glued joints or pre-covered surfaces."
Your confusion in what constitutes a kit is why its written that way.
You'll need a ruling from your state on what constitutes a kit. Nothing we say here will be binding. Then be conservative on complying.
I'll note, unless they disallow published plans, how do they determine it isn't a kit? I mean, I'm sure I could build something from any given plan completely from scratch that would be indistinguishable from a kit built plane.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

User avatar
bernard
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1933
Joined: January 5th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Division: Grad
State: WA
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby bernard » February 12th, 2019, 10:15 am

The poster is from Massachusetts, where they have revised national rules and renamed the event to "Wrong Stuff." Their new rule 3.a. reads: "Kits are not allowed, but the use of rubber bands, rubber motors, and propeller assembly components (consistent with rule 3e) sourced from kits are allowed."
"One of the ways that I believe people express their appreciation to the rest of humanity is to make something wonderful and put it out there."

coachchuckaahs
Member
Member
Posts: 261
Joined: April 24th, 2017, 9:19 am
Division: B
State: NM

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby coachchuckaahs » February 12th, 2019, 10:33 am

It would appear that the "construction log" would be intended to verify that no kit was utilized. As others have noted, it would be hard to distinguish a plan-built and a kit-built plane. I guess take plenty of photos showing the scratch-building process! Is the burden of proof on the ES or on the student?

Coach Chuck

User avatar
CookiePie1
Member
Member
Posts: 198
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 5:05 pm
Division: C
State: NJ
Location: Am I here? Or there? Or both...?

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby CookiePie1 » February 12th, 2019, 11:06 am

bernard wrote:The poster is from Massachusetts, where they have revised national rules and renamed the event to "Wrong Stuff." Their new rule 3.a. reads: "Kits are not allowed, but the use of rubber bands, rubber motors, and propeller assembly components (consistent with rule 3e) sourced from kits are allowed."


Is that real? It almost seems like a joke :lol:
South Brunswick High School '22
2019 Events: Thermodynamics, Protein Modeling, Mission Possible, Wright Stuff

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
-Albert Einstein

BalsaFerret
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: February 6th, 2019, 4:35 am
Division: C
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby BalsaFerret » February 12th, 2019, 11:33 am

CookiePie1 wrote:
bernard wrote:The poster is from Massachusetts, where they have revised national rules and renamed the event to "Wrong Stuff." Their new rule 3.a. reads: "Kits are not allowed, but the use of rubber bands, rubber motors, and propeller assembly components (consistent with rule 3e) sourced from kits are allowed."


Is that real? It almost seems like a joke :lol:


It technically is a joke, but then again it's Massachusetts...

BalsaFerret
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: February 6th, 2019, 4:35 am
Division: C
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby BalsaFerret » February 12th, 2019, 11:39 am

coachchuckaahs wrote:It would appear that the "construction log" would be intended to verify that no kit was utilized. As others have noted, it would be hard to distinguish a plan-built and a kit-built plane. I guess take plenty of photos showing the scratch-building process! Is the burden of proof on the ES or on the student?

Coach Chuck


So theoretically the ffm plan can be used, but things that come along in the kit can't? Does that mean I can just laser cut the ribs and get other parts separate from the kit (cf rods, etc), and call it a plan built plane rather than a kit built plane? Also how would a construction log look like so that it would be legit?

User avatar
bernard
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 1933
Joined: January 5th, 2014, 3:12 pm
Division: Grad
State: WA
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby bernard » February 12th, 2019, 11:50 am

BalsaFerret wrote:
coachchuckaahs wrote:It would appear that the "construction log" would be intended to verify that no kit was utilized. As others have noted, it would be hard to distinguish a plan-built and a kit-built plane. I guess take plenty of photos showing the scratch-building process! Is the burden of proof on the ES or on the student?

Coach Chuck


So theoretically the ffm plan can be used, but things that come along in the kit can't? Does that mean I can just laser cut the ribs and get other parts separate from the kit (cf rods, etc), and call it a plan built plane rather than a kit built plane? Also how would a construction log look like so that it would be legit?

When expectations are vague, I would hope supervisors are lenient.
"One of the ways that I believe people express their appreciation to the rest of humanity is to make something wonderful and put it out there."

User avatar
Unome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4003
Joined: January 26th, 2014, 12:48 pm
Division: Grad
State: GA
Location: somewhere in the sciolyverse

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby Unome » February 12th, 2019, 11:59 am

bernard wrote:The poster is from Massachusetts, where they have revised national rules and renamed the event to "Wrong Stuff." Their new rule 3.a. reads: "Kits are not allowed, but the use of rubber bands, rubber motors, and propeller assembly components (consistent with rule 3e) sourced from kits are allowed."

I almost can't believe that's real... lol
Userpage
Chattahoochee High School Class of 2018
Georgia Tech Class of 2022

Opinions expressed on this site are not official; the only place for official rules changes and FAQs is soinc.org.

jander14indoor
Member
Member
Posts: 1526
Joined: April 30th, 2007, 7:54 am
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby jander14indoor » February 12th, 2019, 12:43 pm

arrghhh.... Someone who truly does not understand the point of the event... Since you can use the plans, you can use the instructions, a pointless rule change.
If someone modified the rules in that way, I wouldn't expect leniency.
Oh well, you have to comply with your local rule changes, this is allowed by the national organization.
Let us know if you need help sourcing suitable materials
I'd also keep receipts for said materials as part of your build log. Have a bill of materials laid out in detail, where parts sourced, cost, when bought, proof of purchase, etc...
Oh, and don't sweat the laser cut ribs, there is no magic there, we can point to several ways to produce ribs that are almost as fast and just as good. If you have access to a laser cutter, I'd have a video of you loading the machine with balsa stock, setting up the run, and the run with you in it!

Do they specify anywhere what a build log is? What goes in it?

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI

Raleway
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 227
Joined: March 12th, 2017, 7:19 pm
Division: C
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby Raleway » February 12th, 2019, 1:01 pm

I'd say it's an April Fool's joke but it seems like it's not April yet. To quote our oft-quoted president, "This has been the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever." I cannot see why rules should be changed.
Sleep is for the week; one only needs it once a week :!: :geek: :roll: :?: :idea:

God bless Len Joeris | Balsaman

Raleway
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 227
Joined: March 12th, 2017, 7:19 pm
Division: C
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby Raleway » February 12th, 2019, 1:36 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I don't think I'd take anything written in Comic Sans with a grain of salt :?:
Sleep is for the week; one only needs it once a week :!: :geek: :roll: :?: :idea:

God bless Len Joeris | Balsaman

jander14indoor
Member
Member
Posts: 1526
Joined: April 30th, 2007, 7:54 am
State: -

Re: Non-kit rules

Postby jander14indoor » February 12th, 2019, 6:11 pm

Source of the PDF is the official Massachusetts State SO website. Unless they've been hacked, I'd assume its real.

Jeff Anderson
Livonia, MI


Return to “Wright Stuff C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests