Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

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FranklinHung
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Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by FranklinHung » March 19th, 2019, 3:29 pm

Hello Guys,

I built my senior flyer from Joshua Finn's kit a while ago. When my partner and I tested it, we found that the plane refused to go up. We tried adding back elevator from the stab, and the plane still doesn't want to go up. In order to get a decent time on the plane, we have to release the plane from 6-7 feet tall, so the plane can glide down slowly. Sometimes the plane would go up, but usually maximum of 2-3 feet above the initial launching point. The area we are testing the plane in has no air vents to disturb it so air vents aren't a problem.

With launching the plane from 6-7 feet from the ground, we were able to get a record time of 1:46. I did forget to add my clay to my 5.5 gram plane for that test so I'm not sure how big of a problem the added clay will cause? We are using a 15 in rubber motor (1/8 in) and are using lubricant (Armor all) We stretched the rubber 3-4 times the original length, then winded 1000 times.

Another problem is the stabilizer keeps shaking back and forth very rapidly so we're bit getting the most efficient use of energy possible.

I have attached a link to a whole bunch of videos of us testing it for reference.

The stabilizer doesn't seem to show up as shaking in the video but is pretty obvious in real life. Also the plane appears to be near the celing in the video but in reality is about 7-8 feet from it.

Link to videos:https://photos.app.goo.gl/hrNADpWr1pJDvCVGA

Hope someone can help,

Franklin
Cypress Woods High School 22'

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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by klastyioer » March 19th, 2019, 6:42 pm

FranklinHung wrote:Hello Guys,

I built my senior flyer from Joshua Finn's kit a while ago. When my partner and I tested it, we found that the plane refused to go up. We tried adding back elevator from the stab, and the plane still doesn't want to go up. In order to get a decent time on the plane, we have to release the plane from 6-7 feet tall, so the plane can glide down slowly. Sometimes the plane would go up, but usually maximum of 2-3 feet above the initial launching point. The area we are testing the plane in has no air vents to disturb it so air vents aren't a problem.

With launching the plane from 6-7 feet from the ground, we were able to get a record time of 1:46. I did forget to add my clay to my 5.5 gram plane for that test so I'm not sure how big of a problem the added clay will cause? We are using a 15 in rubber motor (1/8 in) and are using lubricant (Armor all) We stretched the rubber 3-4 times the original length, then winded 1000 times.

Another problem is the stabilizer keeps shaking back and forth very rapidly so we're bit getting the most efficient use of energy possible.

I have attached a link to a whole bunch of videos of us testing it for reference.

The stabilizer doesn't seem to show up as shaking in the video but is pretty obvious in real life. Also the plane appears to be near the celing in the video but in reality is about 7-8 feet from it.

Link to videos:https://photos.app.goo.gl/hrNADpWr1pJDvCVGA

Hope someone can help,

Franklin
first off i would like to say congrats on building what looks to be a well built senior kit
that kit in particular is very hard to build and it looks gr8!

second i do notice that ur circle is very very very tight in the first few videos but seem to widen towards the end? what did you do to change that?
you need less offset in the tb ( i believe thats the turning factor on that kit but im not quite sure so dont quote me on it)
or less tilt in the stab (if that is what you did to make the plane turn

third, have you tried fixing the incidence in the wing, ik you mentioned elevator posts but i didnt see anything about the wing if i read slow enough lol (looking back the lift isnt really a problem towards the end of the vids so i wouldnt worry tm abt this, though you are pretty off from the ceiling, you want to gain as much height as possible)

fourth, your rubber though it seems like a good amount should probably be shortened if its not enough power for your plane
i know personally ive tried like a ton of different rubbers so its hard to tell exactly what will work for your plane in particular, but if you shorten your motor by a bit, it should help power the plane more
i do see what you mean about the stabilizer shaking and i think it has to do with the design of the plane in all honesty
i would assume that you could make diagonal supports on the elevator posts to prevent the shaking or at least lessen it, but i would wait for the input of others before you quote me on anything

lastly, i think if you remain using the motor youre using right now, you should test a few to see what the general breaking point is and then wind to 90% of that to get max winds

a few tips for the future;
start launching closer to the ground, if you dont youll lose a lot of height
if youre going to record stay further back, you may risk accidentally hitting the plane or making a change to its flight
idk if you recorded this in a flight log (i really hope you did) please PLEASE record each and every flight with additional notes so you know what not to do and what to do next time

out of curiosity, how high is that ceiling?

looks rly good so far and yall are off to a great start, keep up the good work!
it's not about the medals; go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things and have one heck of a time; that's all that matters.

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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by FranklinHung » March 19th, 2019, 8:28 pm

Great! Thanks for your prompt response!

1st,. Not sure why my flight diameter changed so much? Maybe the stabilizer got moved?

2nd, what do you mean by "fixing the incidence on the wing? Is that adding more angle of attack?

Franklin
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by klastyioer » March 20th, 2019, 3:42 am

FranklinHung wrote:Great! Thanks for your prompt response!

1st,. Not sure why my flight diameter changed so much? Maybe the stabilizer got moved?

2nd, what do you mean by "fixing the incidence on the wing? Is that adding more angle of attack?

Franklin
i think you're fine but u want to change the posts so the plane is just about to stall but won't
u adjust it but making sure the front post is further up then the back
and then u measure to see how much incidence there is

i honestly have no idea why your diameter changed

oh and anytime
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by FranklinHung » March 20th, 2019, 4:12 am

Yes, the wing post difference is about 1/8 an inch. I'm not worrying about the circle diameter too much, just want to plane to go up ;)
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by klastyioer » March 20th, 2019, 4:16 am

FranklinHung wrote:Yes, the wing post difference is about 1/8 an inch. I'm not worrying about the circle diameter too much, just want to plane to go up ;)
you should worry slightly abt it
if its tight again you have to figure out what the problem is and why your circles arent consistent
if they are but theyre tiny, youre wasting a lot of potential time
ofc it depends on your competition room in which youre flying
but you want to make it as wide as possible before it gets too close to any walls
itll boost your times, i promise lol
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by CrayolaCrayon » March 20th, 2019, 4:25 am

I had this problem when I first started using the Senior flyer as well. Check the angle your prop is facing. pull back on the hook lightly. The prop should be going straight forward or very slightly upwards. If it is pointing downwards at all; correct it.


The Harlan bearings can change their bend very easily; over an extended period of uses the prop may start to point down; make sure to look for it, and to fix it routinely!
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by Maxout » March 20th, 2019, 5:28 am

CrayolaCrayon wrote: The Harlan bearings can change their bend very easily; over an extended period of uses the prop may start to point down; make sure to look for it, and to fix it routinely!
I've recently switched manufacturers for bearings because the Harlans are not strong enough, as you've seen. Unfortunately I'm having some degree of quality control issues with some of the new bearings being delivered with downthrust built-in. Good news, though, is that when you set it now, it stays. Either way, though, aluminum bearings do need regular inspection.
klastyioer wrote: second i do notice that ur circle is very very very tight in the first few videos but seem to widen towards the end? what did you do to change that?
you need less offset in the tb ( i believe thats the turning factor on that kit but im not quite sure so dont quote me on it)
or less tilt in the stab (if that is what you did to make the plane turn
I sent this to Franklin privately, but I'll post here as well. This looks like a combination of excessive downthrust and not enough washin on the left wing. Reducing the left rudder by moving the tailboom will actually worsen the situation and cause the turn to completely go away at the end of the flight.
klastyioer wrote: first off i would like to say congrats on building what looks to be a well built senior kit
that kit in particular is very hard to build and it looks gr8!
Can you send me some analysis of what you find to be the harder parts of the construction on the Senior Flyer? I'm working on a list of design improvements for next year to reduce the difficulty of building and flying these planes. If you're not comfortable sharing in public, send me a private message either through this forum or through the contact form on my website. You have my word that I won't criticize, either way. My goal is to improve the quality of kits available for contest flying in general and any input from those who are actually using them is extremely valuable.

This invitation for feedback is open to any of you who have purchased or worked with my kits.
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by CrayolaCrayon » March 20th, 2019, 11:02 am

Maxout wrote:
Can you send me some analysis of what you find to be the harder parts of the construction on the Senior Flyer? I'm working on a list of design improvements for next year to reduce the difficulty of building and flying these planes. If you're not comfortable sharing in public, send me a private message either through this forum or through the contact form on my website. You have my word that I won't criticize, either way. My goal is to improve the quality of kits available for contest flying in general and any input from those who are actually using them is extremely valuable.

This invitation for feedback is open to any of you who have purchased or worked with my kits.

I actually found your kit easier to build than any other of your competitors. What makes the Senior Flyer special is its simplicity as compared to other kits. In the end, it really doesn't matter which model you use. What matters the most is matching the rubber and prop.
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Re: Wright Stuff Senior Flyer not going up

Post by klastyioer » March 20th, 2019, 12:21 pm

CrayolaCrayon wrote:
Maxout wrote:
Can you send me some analysis of what you find to be the harder parts of the construction on the Senior Flyer? I'm working on a list of design improvements for next year to reduce the difficulty of building and flying these planes. If you're not comfortable sharing in public, send me a private message either through this forum or through the contact form on my website. You have my word that I won't criticize, either way. My goal is to improve the quality of kits available for contest flying in general and any input from those who are actually using them is extremely valuable.

This invitation for feedback is open to any of you who have purchased or worked with my kits.

I actually found your kit easier to build than any other of your competitors. What makes the Senior Flyer special is its simplicity as compared to other kits. In the end, it really doesn't matter which model you use. What matters the most is matching the rubber and prop.
lmao we get it
i havent tried out your kit personally but i heard from some of my friends that it was harder to build as opposed to the ff kit
from my naked eye though it would be easier for me to build especially with the guide it comes w so that you get all the ribs in the right spot
its also easier for me to work with wood rather than cf soo thats just a personal thing
and im a visual learner so i learn from seeing other ppl do stuff, the videos were nice to watch even if i dont have the kit to build off of
it's not about the medals; go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things and have one heck of a time; that's all that matters.

Check out Klastyioer's Userpage!

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