Increasing Flight Times

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xiangyu
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Increasing Flight Times

Post by xiangyu » April 7th, 2019, 11:45 am

Hi! I'm new to the event this year but after a lot of testing with the FF kit, I was able to consistently get the plane to go around 2 minutes 10 seconds in a ~24 feet gym. However, I could never get above that time. What are some suggestions to increase my time? I've been using the 0.109 rubber band that is cut to 1.5x the length between the prop and hook and winding to around 120 before backing down 5-10. Should I be using a longer/thinner rubberband? Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
BEARSO/SOLVI/Solon/UMich/Allendale
Heli: 1/NA/NA/NA/2
WICI: 33/NA/26/33/1
Machines: 81/42/53/20/7
Detector: -/49/39/27/3
WS: NA/NA/2/NA/NA
Digital: 38/NA/1/1/1
Boomi: NA/NA/4/NA/2

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by klastyioer » April 7th, 2019, 1:45 pm

xiangyu wrote:Hi! I'm new to the event this year but after a lot of testing with the FF kit, I was able to consistently get the plane to go around 2 minutes 10 seconds in a ~24 feet gym. However, I could never get above that time. What are some suggestions to increase my time? I've been using the 0.109 rubber band that is cut to 1.5x the length between the prop and hook and winding to around 120 before backing down 5-10. Should I be using a longer/thinner rubberband? Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
could you provide...

how many winds are you ending w
provide any prop info w altered pitch if use
any incidence info
uhh what else
mass of the plane
launch torque which u added rubber info but idk what that would b lolsry
describe the overall flight in 3 stages: climb cruise fall
it's not about the medals; go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things and have one heck of a time; that's all that matters.

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by xiangyu » April 7th, 2019, 2:43 pm

klastyioer wrote:
xiangyu wrote:Hi! I'm new to the event this year but after a lot of testing with the FF kit, I was able to consistently get the plane to go around 2 minutes 10 seconds in a ~24 feet gym. However, I could never get above that time. What are some suggestions to increase my time? I've been using the 0.109 rubber band that is cut to 1.5x the length between the prop and hook and winding to around 120 before backing down 5-10. Should I be using a longer/thinner rubberband? Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
could you provide...

how many winds are you ending w
provide any prop info w altered pitch if use
any incidence info
uhh what else
mass of the plane
launch torque which u added rubber info but idk what that would b lolsry
describe the overall flight in 3 stages: climb cruise fall
After the plane lands, I'm ending up with around 40-50 winds (somewhere in that area as sometimes I just estimate and not count fully). I've been using the regular 24 cm propeller and haven't altered any pitch (not exactly sure how to experiment with it, like should I decrease or increase angle). As for incidence if you mean the angle of the wings I have about 6-7 degrees for the wing and maybe 3-4 for the stabilizer. Plane is at 8.3 grams and I've been launching with around 0.4-0.45 torque which takes it up just below the ceiling. The plane climbs pretty decently (since idk what is fast/slow lol), it takes around 50 seconds to get to the ceiling height and then it would spend around 20 seconds at the ceiling/descending very slowly before the descend slowly becomes faster and it goes to the ground in about 40-60 seconds.

Thanks for your help!
BEARSO/SOLVI/Solon/UMich/Allendale
Heli: 1/NA/NA/NA/2
WICI: 33/NA/26/33/1
Machines: 81/42/53/20/7
Detector: -/49/39/27/3
WS: NA/NA/2/NA/NA
Digital: 38/NA/1/1/1
Boomi: NA/NA/4/NA/2

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by jsegal » April 9th, 2019, 11:28 am

xiangyu wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
xiangyu wrote:Hi! I'm new to the event this year but after a lot of testing with the FF kit, I was able to consistently get the plane to go around 2 minutes 10 seconds in a ~24 feet gym. However, I could never get above that time. What are some suggestions to increase my time? I've been using the 0.109 rubber band that is cut to 1.5x the length between the prop and hook and winding to around 120 before backing down 5-10. Should I be using a longer/thinner rubberband? Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
could you provide...

how many winds are you ending w
provide any prop info w altered pitch if use
any incidence info
uhh what else
mass of the plane
launch torque which u added rubber info but idk what that would b lolsry
describe the overall flight in 3 stages: climb cruise fall


In my all honest opinion the way to get better is to think like a 2 year old. That is the method we use and we get pretty good flight times.

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by klastyioer » April 9th, 2019, 11:59 am

jsegal wrote:
xiangyu wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
could you provide...

how many winds are you ending w
provide any prop info w altered pitch if use
any incidence info
uhh what else
mass of the plane
launch torque which u added rubber info but idk what that would b lolsry
describe the overall flight in 3 stages: climb cruise fall


In my all honest opinion the way to get better is to think like a 2 year old. That is the method we use and we get pretty good flight times.
oml jake we get it lol
i would say to try to get the cruise longer than the climb
from what our plane does which is very different in the sense that no plane is the same, having a faster climb rather than a faster cruise has proven to be better

to achieve this we made our motors longer and thicker, which has worked pretty well in our case (thicker because more power is needed to stay up there longer)

your motor is already1.5x hook to hook so i wouldn't mess too much w making it longer

i would try to mess w the pitch, more is slower per rotation

u can purchase a pitch gauge off ff and mess w that but read the ws forums from this year before doing so they instruct on how to change the pitch on ikara props
it's not about the medals; go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things and have one heck of a time; that's all that matters.

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by xiangyu » April 9th, 2019, 5:23 pm

jsegal wrote:
xiangyu wrote:
klastyioer wrote:
could you provide...

how many winds are you ending w
provide any prop info w altered pitch if use
any incidence info
uhh what else
mass of the plane
launch torque which u added rubber info but idk what that would b lolsry
describe the overall flight in 3 stages: climb cruise fall


In my all honest opinion the way to get better is to think like a 2 year old. That is the method we use and we get pretty good flight times.
Explain? :lol:
BEARSO/SOLVI/Solon/UMich/Allendale
Heli: 1/NA/NA/NA/2
WICI: 33/NA/26/33/1
Machines: 81/42/53/20/7
Detector: -/49/39/27/3
WS: NA/NA/2/NA/NA
Digital: 38/NA/1/1/1
Boomi: NA/NA/4/NA/2

Medal & Ribbon Count: 18
East Grand Rapids High School Team Captain

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by xiangyu » April 9th, 2019, 5:25 pm

klastyioer wrote:
jsegal wrote:
xiangyu wrote:


In my all honest opinion the way to get better is to think like a 2 year old. That is the method we use and we get pretty good flight times.
oml jake we get it lol
i would say to try to get the cruise longer than the climb
from what our plane does which is very different in the sense that no plane is the same, having a faster climb rather than a faster cruise has proven to be better

to achieve this we made our motors longer and thicker, which has worked pretty well in our case (thicker because more power is needed to stay up there longer)

your motor is already1.5x hook to hook so i wouldn't mess too much w making it longer

i would try to mess w the pitch, more is slower per rotation

u can purchase a pitch gauge off ff and mess w that but read the ws forums from this year before doing so they instruct on how to change the pitch on ikara props
Thanks! I will try to play with the pitch this weekend, my coach just ordered the pitch gauge a week ago so it should be arriving soon. We were already using the thickest motor (the 0.109) and I was thinking maybe thinner rubber band will be better since it will be lighter but I can get the same winds, am I thinking it correctly?
BEARSO/SOLVI/Solon/UMich/Allendale
Heli: 1/NA/NA/NA/2
WICI: 33/NA/26/33/1
Machines: 81/42/53/20/7
Detector: -/49/39/27/3
WS: NA/NA/2/NA/NA
Digital: 38/NA/1/1/1
Boomi: NA/NA/4/NA/2

Medal & Ribbon Count: 18
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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by Dreamz » April 9th, 2019, 7:45 pm

xiangyu, try slowing down your descent rate and remember that your motor stick should be about 3 degrees above the horizontal when descending. My guess is that your high amount of winds left are because you are coming down too quickly. Decalage changes should be able to instantly improve this before you work with rubber/prop combos.
Last edited by Dreamz on April 9th, 2019, 7:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by Dreamz » April 9th, 2019, 7:51 pm

xiangyu wrote:
jsegal wrote:


In my all honest opinion the way to get better is to think like a 2 year old. That is the method we use and we get pretty good flight times.
Explain? :lol:
jsegal, I do agree that WS is fundamentally a bunch of logic. Plane not rising? Work with CG/Incidence. Not turning? Try rudder before anything else. Too many winds left? Play around with rubber, prop, and descent angle. Just a bunch of common sense like you said.

The thing is, "common sense" (at least in WS) isn't as common as some may believe, and WS is also about much more than that. Three months back, it was a challenge for my team to break 3:00 on a regular basis. Yes, we were using common sense, but to get where we are today, my team had to use much more than our 2 year old brains (forums, practice, etc.). I guess it comes more naturally for some than others....

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Re: Increasing Flight Times

Post by xiangyu » April 9th, 2019, 8:41 pm

Dreamz wrote:xiangyu, try slowing down your descent rate and remember that your motor stick should be about 3 degrees above the horizontal when descending. My guess is that your high amount of winds left are because you are coming down too quickly. Decalage changes should be able to instantly improve this before you work with rubber/prop combos.
I will give that a try. Thanks!

Also, how do teams usually measure the angle of the wings and stab? I find it hard to get an accurate measure by eyeing it. Is there a more effective method?
BEARSO/SOLVI/Solon/UMich/Allendale
Heli: 1/NA/NA/NA/2
WICI: 33/NA/26/33/1
Machines: 81/42/53/20/7
Detector: -/49/39/27/3
WS: NA/NA/2/NA/NA
Digital: 38/NA/1/1/1
Boomi: NA/NA/4/NA/2

Medal & Ribbon Count: 18
East Grand Rapids High School Team Captain

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