2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

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Creationist127
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2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Creationist127 » May 14th, 2019, 5:36 am

Hello. I know it's a little too early to ask about this, as Nats aren't even over yet... but does anyone have any predictions/knowledge of the parameters for Wright Stuff next year? For example, a smaller wing chord, smaller wingspan for horizontal stab, motor mass or length limit, etc.?
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Rossyspsce » May 14th, 2019, 7:07 am

Creationist127 wrote:Hello. I know it's a little too early to ask about this, as Nats aren't even over yet... but does anyone have any predictions/knowledge of the parameters for Wright Stuff next year? For example, a smaller wing chord, smaller wingspan for horizontal stab, motor mass or length limit, etc.?


I honestly think some sort of bonus for a certain design or parameter will be added but I could be totally wrong also

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Unome » May 14th, 2019, 7:23 am

Rossyspsce wrote:
Creationist127 wrote:Hello. I know it's a little too early to ask about this, as Nats aren't even over yet... but does anyone have any predictions/knowledge of the parameters for Wright Stuff next year? For example, a smaller wing chord, smaller wingspan for horizontal stab, motor mass or length limit, etc.?


I honestly think some sort of bonus for a certain design or parameter will be added but I could be totally wrong also

Agreed. I would expect a bonus and a tightening of dimensions or such to decrease flight times.
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby JasperKota » May 14th, 2019, 7:57 am

Potentially bringing back the dime bonus?
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby jander14indoor » May 14th, 2019, 8:07 am

Time for my annual, "It doesn't matter what next years rules will be, if you just want to prepare for next year." speech.

So, it really doesn't matter what we do with the rules. You can prepare adequately using ANY years rules. If you can fly nationally competitive times with any one rule set, you will know what you need to do to prepare for the next set of rules in about 10 minutes. Might take a little longer to do the work to 'tune in' the exact rubber/prop mix, but that's it. Indoor flying skills are very transferable from one rule set to another.

If you want to prepare, pick ANY year rules, and get to nationally competitive times. If you are already there, perhaps pick an AMA event like Limited Penny Plane, or if you want a real challenge, EZB or F1D. Maybe fly a little heavier class to have a feel for performance on that end. Pick some oddball events, like payload, ornithopter, one designs like the Hanger Rat, full body rules like embryo endurance, build a canard, build a bi-plane. Learn to build and fly with competitive times over the summer. Perhaps participate in an AMA contest. Don't overdo it and HAVE FUN!

The idea is to build experience/expertise with building and trimming any light plane for endurance. Learn how to test and evaluate. Learn how to analyze data.

Then, when you get the actual rules for next year, like I said, you'll know what to do in a few minutes.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby coachchuckaahs » May 14th, 2019, 9:29 am

I agree with Jeff's assessment.

My kids took time off between States and Nationals and build and competed in LPP. These are considered the "heavy" class in AMA competition, but only weight 3.1g. This experience was very valuable in preparing for Nationals this year. Last summer, we ordered basic supplies, and we were building the week the rules hit the internet. Just had to adjust our drawings for the rule set and start building. Time in the gym is what led to success, more than specific design.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby CrayolaCrayon » May 14th, 2019, 9:45 am

Would be cool to see a pusher plane again..

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Creationist127 » May 15th, 2019, 3:48 pm

Thank you all for your advice!
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2019: Thermo, Circuit Lab, Sounds, Wright Stuff

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Maxout » May 16th, 2019, 8:55 am

CrayolaCrayon wrote:Would be cool to see a pusher plane again..


I ran out of time to test a pusher this year. The weights are high enough that you could do one without sacrificing rigidity. With the tandems we've got, sliding the CG further aft with a pusher might have actually been the optimum solution.

As for preparing for the rules, well, expect the unexpected. Your best bet is to fly AMA classes and push them as hard as possible. Start with a P-18 kit from Lasercut or one of the advanced indoor kits from other vendors (shameless plug) and step things up a notch. Once you can hit 7-8 minutes with a LPP in a gym, you can challenge anyone at Wright Stuff.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby Rossyspsce » May 20th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Maxout wrote:
CrayolaCrayon wrote:Would be cool to see a pusher plane again..


I ran out of time to test a pusher this year. The weights are high enough that you could do one without sacrificing rigidity. With the tandems we've got, sliding the CG further aft with a pusher might have actually been the optimum solution.

As for preparing for the rules, well, expect the unexpected. Your best bet is to fly AMA classes and push them as hard as possible. Start with a P-18 kit from Lasercut or one of the advanced indoor kits from other vendors (shameless plug) and step things up a notch. Once you can hit 7-8 minutes with a LPP in a gym, you can challenge anyone at Wright Stuff.

-Josh


besides increased times, what design benefits would a pusher provide?

edit: and how does/would it provide a benefit?

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby jajefan » May 21st, 2019, 5:30 pm

Rossyspsce wrote:
Maxout wrote:
CrayolaCrayon wrote:Would be cool to see a pusher plane again..


I ran out of time to test a pusher this year. The weights are high enough that you could do one without sacrificing rigidity. With the tandems we've got, sliding the CG further aft with a pusher might have actually been the optimum solution.

As for preparing for the rules, well, expect the unexpected. Your best bet is to fly AMA classes and push them as hard as possible. Start with a P-18 kit from Lasercut or one of the advanced indoor kits from other vendors (shameless plug) and step things up a notch. Once you can hit 7-8 minutes with a LPP in a gym, you can challenge anyone at Wright Stuff.

-Josh


besides increased times, what design benefits would a pusher provide?

edit: and how does/would it provide a benefit?


This is only a guess, but I might say part of the increase in flight time might be due to less turbulent airflow over the wings/stab because the propwash goes entirely behind the plane. For a similar reason, reduced p-factor may mean that there is not as severe of a bank angle in the beginning of the flight as you might expect with a tractor config (although most of the time the "torque spiral of death" this year is caused by flexy motor sticks). Additionally, you now have a bit of real estate in the front of the plane to work with a mechanism that may increase the durability of the plane regarding ceiling hits and whatnot, since we had a few issues this year with the ikara props and the prop mount/bearing breaking on ceiling hits (very rare, but still happened).

I don't quite know the feasibility of a pusher plane in kit form, however, as the standard ikara prop would have to be changed to match a pusher config (for those of us that don't make our own balsa props) and/or would require winding backwards (again, depending on the config of the prop) due to the standard flight orientation (turning left circles vs. right circles).
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby calgoddard » May 23rd, 2019, 6:27 am

The Wright Stuff event has previously awarded a bonus for flying a model with a pusher configuration.

I will try to post a picture showing a design used in the 2008 competition.

The prop on this pusher model is a stock Ikara prop, installed backwards, so that the rubber motor has to be wound counter-clockwise. The blades of the prop may have been trimmed to meet the max diameter allowed in the Wright Stuff rules for that year. The spiral ramp on the prop hub needs to be filed flat. The end of the prop shaft opposite the hook is secured to the hub so that the wound rubber motor can drive the prop hub.

My recollection is that the Wright Stuff pusher design shown in the picture was developed by the late, great Cezar Banks, who was a legendary indoor flier.

It is well-known by experienced indoor fliers that a pusher configuration is typically not as efficient as a tractor configuration (prop in front) on indoor models. I could speculate as to why but that would probably not be constructive and outside the scope of this post.

However, as I recall the 2008 Wright Stuff bonus for using a pusher configuration was sufficient to make it the preferred configuration for those seeking to win the Wright Stuff event. The bonus may have been 15-20% of the flight time but I could not locate a copy of the 2008 Wright Stuff rules.

Maxout - I will try to post a link to a Youtube video showing one of these pushers in flight. I think you would love to see it.

I was unable to attach a picture to this post. I will do some research to see if I can learn how to do it. Sorry about that. The Img icon in the tool bar did not work for me as it merely inserted those letters into the text that I wrote.
Last edited by calgoddard on May 23rd, 2019, 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby calgoddard » May 23rd, 2019, 6:39 am

See my previous post describing a Wright Stuff pusher.

Here is a link to a video showing parts of two flights of a Wright Stuff pusher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgkJE-gbudc

In the video, the pusher is being flown in a Cat IV fling site (135 feet to the highest flyable height). The model was launched at very high torque in an attempt to gain maximum altitude. I believe this resulted in the tight spiral climb shown in the YoutTube video. It appears that the person taking the video incorrectly states that torque causes the plane to fly in a wider circle.

In a Cat I flying site, e.g. a typical HS gym with a max flyable height of about 24 feet) this pusher was launched at much lower torque and exhibited the typical long, slow climb that is desired in most Wright Stuff competitions.

The very narrow chord of the wing and stab on the pusher shown in this video were dictated by the 2008 Wright Stuff rules. Longer flight times would have been achieved with a wider chord on both the wing and stab. The 2008 Wright Stuff rules also put maximum limits on the span of the wing and stab, as has always been the case in this event, as far as I know.

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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby klastyioer » June 6th, 2019, 1:58 pm

can someone explain a pusher plane like the basics of it cause i have no idea what ill do if its a dime bonus or a pusher plane
i only had size and mass limitations to work w in the past 3 years
honestly, it's not about the medals. go out there and have fun. make progress, learn a few things, have one heck of a time, because that's all that matters.
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Re: 2020 Wright Stuff Parameters

Postby bernard » June 6th, 2019, 7:52 pm

klastyioer wrote:can someone explain a pusher plane like the basics of it cause i have no idea what ill do if its a dime bonus or a pusher plane
i only had size and mass limitations to work w in the past 3 years

In previous years, a pusher plane was defined as one with the propeller behind the wing.
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