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Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: September 18th, 2019, 10:07 am
by kinghong1970
Scorable Actions:
For the most part, the rules are fairly easy to understand... but just want to get a better understanding of what they mean by "initiates the next action."

Take for example, the following two action in sequence:
Action 3 (domino)
Action 2 (rotate a wheel and axle)

If we find that the last domino does not have enough mass to activate Action 2, then can there be a "bridging action" such as domino nudging a higher mass golf ball down the ramp and into bucket to activate Action 2?

will the above still satisfy the condition that the next action has been initiated?
the above two are just random examples...

Thanks in advance,

Al

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: September 18th, 2019, 11:27 am
by cool hand luke
normal disclaimer that nothing anybody says here can be taken as a formal clarification:


Good question. I'm assuming that what you stated would be ok. If not I'm going to really have to rethink the whole thing.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: September 18th, 2019, 11:39 am
by knightmoves
It's worth looking through the old forums. I don't think the wording of this rule has changed at all, and it seems like this question must have been asked before.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: September 18th, 2019, 4:35 pm
by sciolyperson1
kinghong1970 wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 10:07 am
Scorable Actions:
For the most part, the rules are fairly easy to understand... but just want to get a better understanding of what they mean by "initiates the next action."

Take for example, the following two action in sequence:
Action 3 (domino)
Action 2 (rotate a wheel and axle)

If we find that the last domino does not have enough mass to activate Action 2, then can there be a "bridging action" such as domino nudging a higher mass golf ball down the ramp and into bucket to activate Action 2?

will the above still satisfy the condition that the next action has been initiated?
the above two are just random examples...

Thanks in advance,

Al
Yes, it would satisfy the condition that the next action has been initiated.

In my mission that I built 3 years ago, many of my screws for example pushed objects off, which in turn, led to another action, such as a lever or a pulley.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 6:50 am
by torqueburner
kinghong1970 wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 10:07 am
Scorable Actions:
For the most part, the rules are fairly easy to understand... but just want to get a better understanding of what they mean by "initiates the next action." . . .

. . . can there be a "bridging action" such as domino nudging a higher mass golf ball down the ramp and into bucket to activate Action 2?

Al
The rules allow for actions that are not scored, (rule 3.e.iii), and specify that each scorable action must initiate the next "action". So your "bridging action" would be considered a non-storable action, and should be listed as such in the ASL.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: October 4th, 2019, 6:45 pm
by builder83
Another next action question.

For example, look at the golf ball task where it is pulled up an incline plane and the ball must start the next action.

The golf ball itself cannot be part of the next action can it? (Like roll off the incline plane and fall into a pully system).

Construction rule 4 says each moveable/adjustable physical object in the Device must be utilized by at most one assigned action (except the golfball in the start/finish task).

This is worded a bit weird. But if I read it right it means the example above would not work. Just making sure I am reading it the same as everybody else.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: October 8th, 2019, 6:32 am
by torqueburner
builder83 wrote:
October 4th, 2019, 6:45 pm
Another next action question.

For example, look at the golf ball task where it is pulled up an incline plane and the ball must start the next action.

The golf ball itself cannot be part of the next action can it? (Like roll off the incline plane and fall into a pully system).

Construction rule 4 says each moveable/adjustable physical object in the Device must be utilized by at most one assigned action (except the golfball in the start/finish task).

This is worded a bit weird. But if I read it right it means the example above would not work. Just making sure I am reading it the same as everybody else.
Yes, you are interpreting this correctly. The golf ball up the incline cannot be used in the pulley task. At the top of the plane, it could push another golf ball into the pulley system.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: November 10th, 2019, 9:42 pm
by davidemartin
I'm still confused about the "initiate the next action" rule. If a golf ball rolls down a ramp (3.c.ix) for 20 cm and then lands on the top of a wedge that causes a ball to start rolling (3.c.xi), is that legal?

Or would the golf ball in 3.c.ix have to hit another object that then hits the wedge?

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: November 11th, 2019, 3:07 pm
by nateDC
davidemartin wrote:
November 10th, 2019, 9:42 pm
I'm still confused about the "initiate the next action" rule. If a golf ball rolls down a ramp (3.c.ix) for 20 cm and then lands on the top of a wedge that causes a ball to start rolling (3.c.xi), is that legal?

Or would the golf ball in 3.c.ix have to hit another object that then hits the wedge?
The golf ball rolling must initiate the next action. It can do so directly by itself hitting the wedge, or it can trigger a bridging non-scorable action to then hit the wedge.

Re: Clarifying "Initiates the next action..."

Posted: November 20th, 2019, 5:26 am
by Flavorflav
torqueburner wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 6:32 am
builder83 wrote:
October 4th, 2019, 6:45 pm
Another next action question.

For example, look at the golf ball task where it is pulled up an incline plane and the ball must start the next action.

The golf ball itself cannot be part of the next action can it? (Like roll off the incline plane and fall into a pully system).

Construction rule 4 says each moveable/adjustable physical object in the Device must be utilized by at most one assigned action (except the golfball in the start/finish task).

This is worded a bit weird. But if I read it right it means the example above would not work. Just making sure I am reading it the same as everybody else.
Yes, you are interpreting this correctly. The golf ball up the incline cannot be used in the pulley task. At the top of the plane, it could push another golf ball into the pulley system.
I don't agree with this. Something is being "utilized" to raise the golf ball, but the golf ball itself is the object of that utilization. I would argue that the golf ball could activate the pulley system without violating 3.a.iv. I have submitted a FAQ on this matter, but it would be good if other people did as well. Sometimes they don't answer a question until a number of people ask it.