Detector Building C

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Re: Detector Building C

Post by gz839918 » September 19th, 2019, 9:46 am

lindsmaurer wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 5:38 pm
Umaroth wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 5:05 pm
dxu46 wrote:
September 18th, 2019, 4:45 pm
Is this even on the rules? I know this was a thing for the trial event but I don't see anything on the official rules about having to withstand a water test.
I mean if the probe is measuring the temperature of water I'd assume it would have to be waterproof to put it in safely...
Dxu is right that there’s no boiling water test or durability test anymore, but it still has to be waterproof...
The end of your detector "must be immersible up to 15.0 cm of water" by rule 3.b. I'm sorry if I confused anybody for saying durability would be "tested," because durability is no longer its own component, as dxu correctly pointed out. I guess the implication is that if your device melts or breaks due to water during the event, your device would be flagged with a construction violation.
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by TheMysteriousMapMan » September 21st, 2019, 11:45 am

I know it's all just nomenclature, but is Detector Building a Lab or a Build event? Are all events with both a hands-on and a theory portion a lab, or does it have to do whether it is a prebuild?
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by Unome » September 21st, 2019, 12:41 pm

TheMysteriousMapMan wrote:
September 21st, 2019, 11:45 am
I know it's all just nomenclature, but is Detector Building a Lab or a Build event? Are all events with both a hands-on and a theory portion a lab, or does it have to do whether it is a prebuild?
I am not sure why it's classified under builds. Probably because under trial rules it was mostly pure build. It's under Tech rather than Physics, although I wouldn't be surprised if it got traded into Physics eventually (if/when Tech finds another event to fill the Robot Arm hole). As the rules are now, I would classify it as a lab event.
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by jinhusong » October 5th, 2019, 8:29 pm

This list is so quiet, so I am just going to post something.

This year, I will coach 3 C teams (same school) for building events.

Here are some my thoughts, any feedback are welcome.

1. Calibration Curve fit: thermistor with full Steinhart–Hart equation, 4 points. TMP36/M35: also 4 points to the 3rd degree of polynomial.

2. ADC: Arduino built-in ADC only 10 bits, too tight for 0.1 degree C, so plan to use 16 Bit ADC (ADS1115).

3. ~1000 readings to average.

4. Advanced circuit for probe electronics.

5. Arduino will be used. Just because more kids are familiar with Arduino and cheaper to buy. External ADC will be used, so Raspberry Pi is also possible.

Will ask kids to study how thermistor and TMP36 work, how ADC works, how LED works. They already know Arduino.

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Re: Detector Building C

Post by jinhusong » October 9th, 2019, 2:36 pm

FAQ:

(Section: 3 / Paragraph: b / Line: 1)
10/09/2019
ARE WE ALLOWED TO USE MORE THAN ONE TEMPERATURE SENSOR AND USE AN AVERAGE READING OF THEM, OR IS THERE A LIMIT OF ONLY ONE INPUT DEVICE?
No, only one sensor per device is allowed.

==============
I was thinking use different thermistors for reading temperature close to 0 degree C and 75 degree C. Well, just have to pick one, maybe 10kohm or 20kohm.

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Re: Detector Building C

Post by pepperonipi » October 9th, 2019, 2:55 pm

jinhusong wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 2:36 pm
FAQ:

(Section: 3 / Paragraph: b / Line: 1)
10/09/2019
ARE WE ALLOWED TO USE MORE THAN ONE TEMPERATURE SENSOR AND USE AN AVERAGE READING OF THEM, OR IS THERE A LIMIT OF ONLY ONE INPUT DEVICE?
No, only one sensor per device is allowed.

==============
I was thinking use different thermistors for reading temperature close to 0 degree C and 75 degree C. Well, just have to pick one, maybe 10kohm or 20kohm.

Tiger
Yeah, I feel that using multiple thermistors would defeat the purpose of the event. At that point, I feel some teams may attempt to just very finely tune lots of individual thermistors, which takes away a lot of the challenge...
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by lindsmaurer » October 9th, 2019, 8:04 pm

pepperonipi wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 2:55 pm
jinhusong wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 2:36 pm
FAQ:

(Section: 3 / Paragraph: b / Line: 1)
10/09/2019
ARE WE ALLOWED TO USE MORE THAN ONE TEMPERATURE SENSOR AND USE AN AVERAGE READING OF THEM, OR IS THERE A LIMIT OF ONLY ONE INPUT DEVICE?
No, only one sensor per device is allowed.

==============
I was thinking use different thermistors for reading temperature close to 0 degree C and 75 degree C. Well, just have to pick one, maybe 10kohm or 20kohm.

Tiger
Yeah, I feel that using multiple thermistors would defeat the purpose of the event. At that point, I feel some teams may attempt to just very finely tune lots of individual thermistors, which takes away a lot of the challenge...
Yeah but it’s also kind of disappointing... I was also going to use one NTC and one PTC thermistor for different ranges
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by kendreaditya » October 14th, 2019, 7:51 am

jinhusong wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:29 pm
1. Calibration Curve fit: thermistor with full Steinhart–Hart equation, 4 points. TMP36/M35: also 4 points to the 3rd degree of polynomial.
So in #1, you said "full Steinhart–Hart equation, 4 points", does the 4 points mean, input 4 points instead of 3? Because in my findings, I have discovered that it decreases accuracy.

Edit: It sounds like it shouldn't, but it does, I have no idea why

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Re: Detector Building C

Post by pepperonipi » October 14th, 2019, 9:44 am

jinhusong wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:29 pm
2. ADC: Arduino built-in ADC only 10 bits, too tight for 0.1 degree C, so plan to use 16 Bit ADC (ADS1115).
Isn't this not allowed, according to the FAQ?
(Section: 3 / Paragraph: a / Line: 1)
10/13/2019
MAY STUDENTS ADD A MODULAR ANALOG-TO-DIGITAL CONVERTOR (ADC) TO THEIRMICROCONTROLLER?

No. External signal conditioning boards are not allowed.
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Re: Detector Building C

Post by kendreaditya » October 14th, 2019, 9:58 am

pepperonipi wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:44 am
jinhusong wrote:
October 5th, 2019, 8:29 pm
2. ADC: Arduino built-in ADC only 10 bits, too tight for 0.1 degree C, so plan to use 16 Bit ADC (ADS1115).
Isn't this not allowed, according to the FAQ?
(Section: 3 / Paragraph: a / Line: 1)
10/13/2019
MAY STUDENTS ADD A MODULAR ANALOG-TO-DIGITAL CONVERTOR (ADC) TO THEIRMICROCONTROLLER?

No. External signal conditioning boards are not allowed.
That's kinda weird cause it does not say anywhere in the rules that you can't. Plus, Raspberry Pi's don't have a built-in ADC, so you are forced to only use a digital sensor if you go that route.

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