Wright Stuff C

lechassin
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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by lechassin » February 26th, 2020, 7:12 pm

We should drop this because it is not going to get resolved.

The rules explicitly state that students are to design the plane. If you didn't design your plane and you're using a kit, you interpreted the rules to maximum personal advantage.

Well, everyone is interpreting the rules to maximum personal benefit. Don't make this about morality.

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by Cornstalk » February 26th, 2020, 7:18 pm

Obviously I missed the mark in my post. I have nothing against coaches with experience who help their kids through guidance! I think its wonderful and helps them improve their in STEM. For instance, coach chuck, I have been following the story of your kids this year, and I think its amazing the progress and achievements THEY have been able to get with THEIR work. However, my problem was with those who do help too much, as in actual hands on, building the plane themselves. Hopefully this clears up my beliefs a little bit.

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by MadCow2357 » February 26th, 2020, 7:37 pm

Cornstalk wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 7:18 pm
those who do help too much, as in actual hands on, building the plane themselves. Hopefully this clears up my beliefs a little bit.
springhouse parents *intensify* :lol:

And to Coach Chuck, lechassin, and everyone else - very nicely said! Couldn't agree more 8-) However, I don't think Cornstalk meant to offend you guys with his post lol (as he said above)

I'd also like to add, thank you for being the Balsa Men of WS, though I can only dream of understanding everything you guys converse about

The decision you all made to share your wealth of knowledge with all on the forums in addition to your own teams is truly admirable.
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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by lechassin » February 26th, 2020, 7:49 pm

Adult-built planes is a concern. I've seen some beauties that have me wondering, but proving malfeasance would be impossible. After I too wondered aloud once, I was made to realize that it's best to not go there.

As for Luke's planes, I built and extensively tested the prototypes, the torque meter, and the winder, and documented the whole process in here. It is perfectly appropriate because we didn't use a kit. The kit manufacturers did the same thing behind the scenes, why shouldn't I? We did document him building his plane after I smelled some suspicions wafting our way, hopefully this will reassure everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBAMoaZyWhQ&t=237s. He has since built a backup plane, so we have total of three. Mine is the one we use to test new ideas.

This is only our second season, so it's not like I have any more experience to share than anyone else. What I offer Luke has nothing to do with the plane. The plane, or the unique torque meter we made, or the faster winder we made, these are all examples of problem solving skills being passed on from father to son.

Edit: what does "Springhouse parents *intensify* mean?

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by NorCalplaya » February 26th, 2020, 9:15 pm

lechassin wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 7:49 pm
Edit: what does "Springhouse parents *intensify* mean?
Teams whos parents make the builds, this is probably more of a joke, but this is a real problem and can be clearly seen many times. I coach middle school builds at Churchill, and when I go to competitions, there are clear signs of parents helping with builds. Parents often talk to kids even during the events, or tinker with builds before the actual event, or literally see google engineering on builds, this is an exaggeration but you get what I mean.

I think coaching is beneficial and I have often asked for help from coach chuck and others. Not showing off in any way, but I had no coach last year and still placed 4th at nationals in Wright Stuff. I built everything on my own, asked private and public questions and made the most of these forums. IT IS POSSIBLE to work on your own and win. I also talked with past national medal flyers from my school, which not all schools would have, but these forums are VERY helpful and most coaches believe in helping kids learn the science behind the events, rather than winning awards.

I see both sides of this, but there is a possibility for success without coaching, and these coaches have respect at the high school level to not make the builds. I would also like to thank coach chuck, brian T, and others whose usernames I have forgotten while typing, but everyone who has helped me in the past and contributed information to this forum.

And lechassin, you have contributed a great deal and have helped me and definitely many others with your videos of flights and whatnot.

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by lechassin » February 27th, 2020, 5:22 am

The solution is simple: we've posted absolutely everything, so the "evidence" of our "crimes" is overwhelming. Those with residual concerns should band together and get an official ruling. SciOly can disqualify us if appropriate, and we will accept the decision :x .

If SciOly does not disqualify us, get back to work. We have thinner rubber on the way and there's a slim chance we'll be over 2 minutes at 25 feet.

Regardless of what happens, we are not permanent fixtures here and we will drift on to other adventures. I would like to say that we too are grateful for the numerous detailed PMs, posts, and links that CoachChuck, Brian, Cal, Jeff, and others have gifted to us. Without that we would not have even known where to begin <3 .

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by MadCow2357 » February 27th, 2020, 5:50 am

NorCalplaya wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 9:15 pm
lechassin wrote:
February 26th, 2020, 7:49 pm
Edit: what does "Springhouse parents *intensify* mean?
Teams whos parents make the builds, this is probably more of a joke, but this is a real problem and can be clearly seen many times.
Apparently one of the Springhouse dads was caught trying to fly his daughter's glider for her IN competition at Rustin last year. There have also been numerous reports of parents from said middle school illegally filming and photographing other teams' builds.

Speaking of illegal recording, this seems to be as relevant of a problem as parent involvement - at Brown there was one team who was recording my boomilever, but my mom didn't tell me about it until it was too late because she thought the person might be on my team. It should be made extremely clear to all competitors that recording other teams' builds is not allowed at any competition, but even with that there will still be those who disregard the rule. Any ideas on how to prevent this?
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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by lechassin » February 27th, 2020, 6:00 am

That's easy: no recording equipment allowed in the room. I never thought of it, but now that you mention it, I'm amazed that's not already being enforced. My main concern would be competitors getting advice via text.

I don't go to Luke's meets and I can't text, so that avoids me any temptation to micromanage :P

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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by CrayolaCrayon » February 27th, 2020, 6:20 am

lechassin wrote:
February 27th, 2020, 6:00 am
That's easy: no recording equipment allowed in the room. I never thought of it, but now that you mention it, I'm amazed that's not already being enforced.
If you ban cameras, what stops them from simply using their phone?
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Re: Wright Stuff C

Post by lechassin » February 27th, 2020, 6:50 am

No recording equipment of any kind: cameras, phones, courtroom artists, etc... There is ample precedent for such a rule.

At this point I can't tell if SciOly is naive or just careless :?: Obviously the honor system isn't being respected to everyone's satisfaction (including what I'm doing), so SciOly should add clarity where needed, it would have saved us all this argument we're having.

As an aside, I hope even our detractors can accept that I am not intentionally cheating. I just have a different point of view, and it wouldn't hurt to have it formally arbitrated if that's what people want.

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