Rules Clarification

Post Reply
longshot0921
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: September 15th, 2018, 11:17 am

Rules Clarification

Post by longshot0921 » December 6th, 2019, 3:32 pm

in Machines rule 5h. it states:
Teams with no device, no ration estimates, or that do not make an honest attempt to utilize a device of the prescribed type to determine the mass ratios receive R1, R2, and TS of 0. Such teams will be allowed to compete in Part I (the written test).

Does this rule prohibit guessing after the mass is found to be out of range of the machine? During the testing, I couldn't balance two masses because the ratio was too close to 1 for my machine to calculate. Since I knew that the masses were very similar due to the fact that my machine couldn't handle it, I made a guess of 1 as the ratio. The proctors marked my attempt as not making an honest attempt. I think the word honest attempt means that I should make a genuine attempt by using the machine for its intended purpose. I believe I had done so, but since the machine could only provide me with the fact that the masses were very close I put 1 as the ratio based on the failed results.

Umaroth
Member
Member
Posts: 187
Joined: February 10th, 2018, 8:51 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Location: Kraemer Room 504, Troy Room 909, or studying at my dining table

Re: Rules Clarification

Post by Umaroth » December 6th, 2019, 5:02 pm

longshot0921 wrote:
December 6th, 2019, 3:32 pm
in Machines rule 5h. it states:
Teams with no device, no ration estimates, or that do not make an honest attempt to utilize a device of the prescribed type to determine the mass ratios receive R1, R2, and TS of 0. Such teams will be allowed to compete in Part I (the written test).

Does this rule prohibit guessing after the mass is found to be out of range of the machine? During the testing, I couldn't balance two masses because the ratio was too close to 1 for my machine to calculate. Since I knew that the masses were very similar due to the fact that my machine couldn't handle it, I made a guess of 1 as the ratio. The proctors marked my attempt as not making an honest attempt. I think the word honest attempt means that I should make a genuine attempt by using the machine for its intended purpose. I believe I had done so, but since the machine could only provide me with the fact that the masses were very close I put 1 as the ratio based on the failed results.
Nothing on this site is official. I would send a clarification to the rules clarification area on soinc.org.
Troy SciOly 2019-present
The Ambassador
Kraemer SciOly Padre 2018-present
Dank Memes Area Homeschool Juggernaut 2018-present
Kraemer SciOly Pretty-Much Head Coach 2019-present
2020 Tryouts: Circuit, Code, Detector, DP, GeoMaps, Machines
Regionals and GGSO Events: Code, Detector, DP

Umaroth's Userpage

chalker
Member
Member
Posts: 2095
Joined: January 9th, 2009, 7:30 pm
Division: Grad
State: OH

Re: Rules Clarification

Post by chalker » December 8th, 2019, 7:00 am

Umaroth wrote:
December 6th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Nothing on this site is official. I would send a clarification to the rules clarification area on soinc.org.
This is correct. Unofficially though, I can tell you we put that honest attempt language in the rules to explicitly prevent people from 'guessing' the ratios. It sure sounds like that's what you did here, but it of course is a bit of a subjective call.

Note, you explicitly said 'the mass is out of the range of the machine'. But the rules state you must build the machine to be able to accommodate the masses (rule 3.d), so technically an event supervisor could have said your machine has a construction violation and not even let it compete.

Student Alumni
National Event Supervisor
National Physical Sciences Rules Committee Chair

longshot0921
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: September 15th, 2018, 11:17 am

Re: Rules Clarification

Post by longshot0921 » December 8th, 2019, 5:36 pm

chalker wrote:
December 8th, 2019, 7:00 am
Umaroth wrote:
December 6th, 2019, 5:02 pm
Nothing on this site is official. I would send a clarification to the rules clarification area on soinc.org.
This is correct. Unofficially though, I can tell you we put that honest attempt language in the rules to explicitly prevent people from 'guessing' the ratios. It sure sounds like that's what you did here, but it of course is a bit of a subjective call.

Note, you explicitly said 'the mass is out of the range of the machine'. But the rules state you must build the machine to be able to accommodate the masses (rule 3.d), so technically an event supervisor could have said your machine has a construction violation and not even let it compete.
The rules never explicitly stated that it must be able to measure the maximum ratio range. Rule 3.D states: "The device must be constructed to accommodate the masses, and must not include springs." I think accommodate means that the device should be able to hold/fit the masses, but the range is not mentioned explicitly. I think the machines rules are poorly written because not enough details are explicitly mentioned and it is too much to interpretation. In a way, I did make an honest attempt to measure the ratio and I was able to narrow down the range of the ratio significantly. Couldn't the rules have just said "no guessing is allowed whatsoever" if guessing is prohibited? It seems like honest attempt was put instead to allow those who actually tried to use their machines to be able to narrow down the range.

Next time, I'll just make sure to increase the range and I won't have to worry about the interpretation. :D

Robot2020
Member
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: February 16th, 2020, 3:21 pm
Division: B
State: NY

Re: Rules Clarification

Post by Robot2020 » February 22nd, 2020, 4:24 pm

Hi

For the lab, we will have to find
1) ratio of the masses , m1/m2 and m2/ m3.
2) 3 graphs each having 10 data points.
3) diagram

Things we do not do in the lab part
1) we do not have to find AMA, IMA, Efficiency like in Mr.Burleson's 4th video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae5[url][url][/url][/url]Fm1XY9GI&t=501s
Thanks
Robot

User avatar
MadCow2357
Member
Member
Posts: 714
Joined: November 19th, 2017, 9:09 am
Division: C
State: RI
Location: Stark Industries Internship
Contact:

Re: Rules Clarification

Post by MadCow2357 » February 22nd, 2020, 6:42 pm

Robot2020 wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 4:24 pm
Hi

For the lab, we will have to find
1) ratio of the masses , m1/m2 and m2/ m3.
2) 3 graphs each having 10 data points.
3) diagram

Things we do not do in the lab part
1) we do not have to find AMA, IMA, Efficiency like in Mr.Burleson's 4th video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae5[url][url][/url][/url]Fm1XY9GI&t=501s
Thanks
Robot
?
MadCow2357's Userpage
2020 Events: Boomilever, Machines, Wright Stuff, and sadly not Gravity Vehicle
Gallagher MS '19
Barrington HS '23
Andrew Yang for VP!
In remembrance of Len Joeris (Balsa Man) and Dr. Gerard Putz - Don't cry because they are gone. Smile because they were here.

Post Reply

Return to “Machines B/C”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests