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Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 5:58 am
by Cow481
I think what defines an arch would be that there are two “areas” of suport with something connecting them and it can not touch the ground between two points that the event supervisor gives.
That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.
But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 6:00 am
by Cow481
I think what defines an arch would be that there are two “areas” of suport with something connecting them and it can not touch the ground between two points that the event supervisor gives.
That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.
But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between
Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 7:55 am
by shri

That is what I am thinking and coaching. Essentially a tower with only 2 sides on either end.
But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between
Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.
Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 8:05 am
by heiber
But with a gap in between that is provided by the ES so is it like an elevated bridge with the height being the main dimension and having a set minimum distance in between
Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.
Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.
What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 9:11 am
by shri
Sorry for double posting but I also think you can have two mini towers and something in between to hold the load. I don’t think it has to be one column on each side.
Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.
What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".
Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 10:18 am
by Cow481

Whether you use two columns or two mini towers on the side, the question for me is whether it is acceptable to have a cross-brace connecting the two to prevent them from spreading/splaying. Is there a minimum height above which you are allowed to attach a brace? If the brace it at the ground level, then the structure is no different from a tower.
What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".
Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?
My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: December 3rd, 2018, 10:22 am
by shri

What I am coaching right now is practicing to measuring to the bottom of the arch platform / top. So if they build an arch that is 20 cm high but has cross bracing at 10 cm high, then the max height is 10 cm. But I've also talked with them about how we are making educated guesses and it is very important for them to understand the build parameters and scoring during the event.

When we reviewed the rules and section 4 - Primary Measurements, I told them that the most important word in the entire section is "could".
Agreed about what you said about the cross-brace.

There is one more issue. Are you requiring a minimum horizontal span where you are measuring the height? If the arch looks like a triangle, are you measuring the height to the top of the triangle, or to the tallest point inside the triangle which has the specific minimum horizontal span?
My guess is that you would measure to the tallest point inside the parameters although an ES maybe could make it so that it has to be inside the paraneters but only for a specific height which would encourage triangle shaped arches or at least a slanted one
That is a good thought! It would be easier to enforce a minimum width at a specified height, but then have no restriction beyond that. This does mean that you could build a tower on top of an arch, and that is OK.

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: January 7th, 2019, 10:34 am
by ebudd2
HI, I had a question on the arches and tunnels. Is there any information on what exactly is expected of these structures? For example, would the arches be free-standing, or as part of a bridge for example? If the primary dimension of the tunnel is the longest portion of covered part, then what is its base? Anyone have any ideas?
Second this question. After coaching this event last year, I am a hard time visualizing the structures for this year:

What is the difference between an ELEVATED bridge and last year? Is it that this year they are going to always add the hight to the primary measurement vs. just the length?
For the Arch, is this really the same as a bridge but measuring to the apex of the bottom supports?
For the Tunnel, I can't imagine how this may be run. Seems to me the only limiting factor is the "covering" that will be used to enclose the tunnel. But understand how this will be differentiated if there is no load.

Yes I know part of the challenge of the event are the unknows - but without having some understanding of the types of builds, it is very hard to practice and know what to learn.
Thanks for any insight.

For tunnels - are support posts allowed? Is it basically a series of arches connected by support beams on top (like a tunnel camping tent pole structure)? Can you have a support post go down the middle of the tunnel?

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: January 7th, 2019, 11:10 am
by heiber
HI, I had a question on the arches and tunnels. Is there any information on what exactly is expected of these structures? For example, would the arches be free-standing, or as part of a bridge for example? If the primary dimension of the tunnel is the longest portion of covered part, then what is its base? Anyone have any ideas?
Second this question. After coaching this event last year, I am a hard time visualizing the structures for this year:

What is the difference between an ELEVATED bridge and last year? Is it that this year they are going to always add the hight to the primary measurement vs. just the length?
For the Arch, is this really the same as a bridge but measuring to the apex of the bottom supports?
For the Tunnel, I can't imagine how this may be run. Seems to me the only limiting factor is the "covering" that will be used to enclose the tunnel. But understand how this will be differentiated if there is no load.

Yes I know part of the challenge of the event are the unknows - but without having some understanding of the types of builds, it is very hard to practice and know what to learn.
Thanks for any insight.

For tunnels - are support posts allowed? Is it basically a series of arches connected by support beams on top (like a tunnel camping tent pole structure)? Can you have a support post go down the middle of the tunnel?
As always, it depends on who is running the event and how they define the measurements but I DO NOT think this tests the intent of a tunnel. We recently practiced a tunnel and I have them structural materials (straws) and non-structural materials (grocery bags) with the primary measurement being: The longest enclosed tunnel that can pass a tennis ball through it. I impaled a tennis ball on a dowel so to use for testing.

Here is the actual write-up. I considered the table as part of the enclosure meaning the bag did not need to be on the bottom:

Create the longest tunnel that can fit a tennis ball all of the way through it. The tunnel cannot be secured to the table and must be fully enclosed. Materials:
• 2 grocery bags
• 40 straws
• masking tape

Primary measurement: Longest length of the tunnel that can fit the tennis ball
Secondary measurement: Diameter of the smallest section of the tunnel

Re: Mystery Architecture B

Posted: January 9th, 2019, 9:47 am
by lindsmaurer
Has anyone had any success in building arches with paper? It seems nearly impossible to make bent joints that are stable, and the FAQ's say that an arch needs to have a curved, symmetrical structure.

Also, for tunnels we've been rolling a ping pong ball or a golf ball through our tunnels to test the minimum dimension, if that helps anyone.