Herpetology B/C

fabishkf
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby fabishkf » January 13th, 2019, 10:49 am

same clade as crocodiles
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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » January 13th, 2019, 1:11 pm

same clade as crocodiles
Reptiles don't include birds though: rather, a reptile is an amniote that is neither a mammal or a bird. This is because reptiles aren't actually a single clade.

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby fabishkf » January 13th, 2019, 2:09 pm

Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).
Hamilton Middle School '17
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National tournaments: 2016 Stout, 2017 Wright State division B, 2018 CSU, 2019 Cornell division C
2019 SONT at Cornell: 2nd Geologic Mapping, 6th Fossils

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » January 13th, 2019, 4:32 pm

Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).
It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because hereptologists don't study birds.

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby kate! » January 13th, 2019, 4:40 pm

Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).
It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.
Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.
Last year I knew stuff about rocks, minerals, experiments, and ecosystems, yay!
Now I know stuff about amphibians, reptiles, water, and more experiments, yay again!
I'm planning to learn stuff about oceanography, fossils, and more water, yay for the third time!

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » January 13th, 2019, 4:41 pm

Actually, birds are just not traditionally studied with reptiles because superficially they seem different. Phylogenetically, they are part of the clade Reptilia, which isn't a clade if you don't include birds. So even though they aren't studied together traditionally they are in the same monophyletic group (your definition of reptiles is correct in how they're usually studied however).
It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.
Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.
Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby cbrant554 » January 13th, 2019, 5:44 pm

It is true that birds are part of the same clade as reptiles, but Reptilia is not a clade: it is a class. The clade that includes reptiles and birds is generally (read: as far as I know) called Sauropsida. Either way, it doesn't make sense for a bird to be on the Herpetology List because herpetologists don't study birds.
Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.
Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...
The Question was a whole separate question from the others and was labeled tiebreaker. The person who wrote the test wasn't a "Official test writer" they just volunteered and had done ecology before. Luckily it was only an invite

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » January 13th, 2019, 5:54 pm

Also, Ornithology is literally an event so why would there be birds in any other event.
Yeah, I hope that event supervisor didn't actually use that tiebreaker question...
The Question was a whole separate question from the others and was labeled tiebreaker. The person who wrote the test wasn't a "Official test writer" they just volunteered and had done ecology before. Luckily it was only an invite
Haha, props to the test writer for volunteering!

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby anthony » January 16th, 2019, 2:40 pm

:D :( :x :lol: :shock: :? :geek: 8-) :!:
Are we allowed to use a published field guide in the herpetology event? If so, what's the best one?

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Re: Herpetology B/C

Postby emmalasagna » January 16th, 2019, 4:32 pm

Are we allowed to use a published field guide in the herpetology event? If so, what's the best one?
As of the new rules for this year, only a student-made binder is allowed for competitions. Field guides can still be useful for gathering information and studying, though (Peterson's field guides are usually recommended), but aren't allowed in competitions.
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