New York 2019

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builderguy135
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Re: New York 2019

Post by builderguy135 » May 3rd, 2019, 7:41 pm

thecatgod wrote:I see what both of you are saying. I'm not trying to start a fight or get people mad at me. I just find it to be really unfair that so many people want to get on and already have experience but are denied because of a 25 question test that doesn't separate anyone from each other and has topics on it not included in the description of the exam. I'm sorry if I made anyone mad, but I'm trying to do the thing that I think those 14 people who worked their butts off for years deserve without breaking Science Olympiad rules. I can handle the criticism and anger of the existing teams if they do feel like this is wrong, but I know I won't stop trying to do the thing I think is right until I am denied by official rules. Thank you very much for your input.
oof. sorry, didn't see this before i made the response below.
it seems like your school's tryouts are pretty screwed up. assuming the test is multiple choice, you're right. it won't separate anyone to the good/bad.

there are a few things that you could do about this.
1) again, dont start a new team for reasons i stated below
2) emailing the club advisor might be a good idea. suggest future changes to the tryout test as well as your opinion on the people who you think deserve to be on the team. hopefully the teacher will be reasonable with you
3) friendly reminder that upperclassmen are given priority as they do have seniority and likely have done scio for more years. (not saying that they're gonna be better at scio but just that they've done it for a while)

good luck!
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Re: New York 2019

Post by thecatgod » May 4th, 2019, 4:52 am

Sadly, I already did all of that. I'm only trying to do this because it's my last option. I emailed the leader of their team and said that we won't be allowed to be on a c-team since it costs too much(?), even though all we want is maybe even one invitational and regionals. Furthermore, I talked to them about the test and they said that nobody else has a problem with the way that it done and how it was made, so they said the the results are valid and we have no case for making a team. Finally, most of the time, upperclassmen do have seniority as they have been doing science olympiad most often from middle school, but that isn't the case here. Nearly 70% of the upperclassmen on the team haven't done science olympiad at all before and just need to join a club to graduate while some of us have been doing since 6th grade and competed again for our middle school in ninth. I don't like how unfair this is all of us who just want to keep doing science olympiad as we've had too much fun doing it so far and it isn't right that most people are denied an opportunity to be an alternate simply because they are an incoming freshmen or haven't taken AP chemistry yet. Once again, I am sorry if I confused anyone or got them mad.
Medal Count 2018: 20
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Re: New York 2019

Post by Name » May 4th, 2019, 8:30 am

thecatgod wrote:Sadly, I already did all of that. I'm only trying to do this because it's my last option. I emailed the leader of their team and said that we won't be allowed to be on a c-team since it costs too much(?), even though all we want is maybe even one invitational and regionals. Furthermore, I talked to them about the test and they said that nobody else has a problem with the way that it done and how it was made, so they said the the results are valid and we have no case for making a team. Finally, most of the time, upperclassmen do have seniority as they have been doing science olympiad most often from middle school, but that isn't the case here. Nearly 70% of the upperclassmen on the team haven't done science olympiad at all before and just need to join a club to graduate while some of us have been doing since 6th grade and competed again for our middle school in ninth. I don't like how unfair this is all of us who just want to keep doing science olympiad as we've had too much fun doing it so far and it isn't right that most people are denied an opportunity to be an alternate simply because they are an incoming freshmen or haven't taken AP chemistry yet. Once again, I am sorry if I confused anyone or got them mad.
If the problem is cost, can't you ask to see if you can create a team C for regionals by fundrasing or getting members to pay some sort of fee to join the team in order to cover the cost, and potentially more per compitition attended?
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Re: New York 2019

Post by syo_astro » May 4th, 2019, 9:00 am

Name wrote:
thecatgod wrote:Sadly, I already did all of that. I'm only trying to do this because it's my last option. I emailed the leader of their team and said that we won't be allowed to be on a c-team since it costs too much(?), even though all we want is maybe even one invitational and regionals.
If the problem is cost, can't you ask to see if you can create a team C for regionals by fundrasing or getting members to pay some sort of fee to join the team in order to cover the cost, and potentially more per compitition attended?
Yeah so changing tryout systems can be difficult without seniority (trust me, I tried for years and literally couldn't do it until I was a senior in high school).

But NOW we're getting somewhere. Ask exactly how much it costs and say you'll fundraise it with others (ways as suggested by Name). If you do that I have no clue what they'd complain about. The only issue is if you may have to pay for your own transportation or other fees aside from registration. Regionals shouldn't be too hard to cover, but invites may be tougher (and in fact many teams don't bring Team Cs to invites tbh...). You'll just have to see how far you can get.

Keep in mind, though, there is a deadline for registration (see: https://www.newyorkscioly.org/team-regi ... formation/), so it's actually good that you're planning this earlier than later.
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Re: New York 2019

Post by builderguy135 » May 4th, 2019, 9:25 am

syo_astro wrote:
Name wrote:
thecatgod wrote:Sadly, I already did all of that. I'm only trying to do this because it's my last option. I emailed the leader of their team and said that we won't be allowed to be on a c-team since it costs too much(?), even though all we want is maybe even one invitational and regionals.
If the problem is cost, can't you ask to see if you can create a team C for regionals by fundrasing or getting members to pay some sort of fee to join the team in order to cover the cost, and potentially more per compitition attended?
Yeah so changing tryout systems can be difficult without seniority (trust me, I tried for years and literally couldn't do it until I was a senior in high school).

But NOW we're getting somewhere. Ask exactly how much it costs and say you'll fundraise it with others (ways as suggested by Name). If you do that I have no clue what they'd complain about. The only issue is if you may have to pay for your own transportation or other fees aside from registration. Regionals shouldn't be too hard to cover, but invites may be tougher (and in fact many teams don't bring Team Cs to invites tbh...). You'll just have to see how far you can get.

Keep in mind, though, there is a deadline for registration (see: https://www.newyorkscioly.org/team-regi ... formation/), so it's actually good that you're planning this earlier than later.
Busses will be pretty hard to get. I recommend carpooling. (That's what we do and it saves a LOT of money, especially since all the fees are already pretty expensive)
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Re: New York 2019

Post by thecatgod » May 4th, 2019, 11:34 am

We've been thinking about carpooling already and I doubt it would be that hard to organize if we already have a team interested in this. I'm currently contacting the team in place about getting more funding so we don't ruffle any feathers that we don't have to if it can be avoided. I'll tell you all what they say when I get a response and thanks again for all your input. By any chance, do any of you know which forms need to be filled out for a team to be created or is it all online now?
Medal Count 2018: 20
Rustin/Garnet/Islip/Cornell/Regionals/States
Hovercraft:3/4/4/1/1/1
Thermo:16/6/1/3/1/5
Quiz Bowl:4/-/2/-/-/-/
Optics:11/7/-/-/-/1
Experimental:-/-/-/23/2/5
Road Scholar:-/-/-/-/2/2
Fast Facts:-/-/-/6/-/-/

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Re: New York 2019

Post by builderguy135 » May 4th, 2019, 1:26 pm

thecatgod wrote:We've been thinking about carpooling already and I doubt it would be that hard to organize if we already have a team interested in this. I'm currently contacting the team in place about getting more funding so we don't ruffle any feathers that we don't have to if it can be avoided. I'll tell you all what they say when I get a response and thanks again for all your input. By any chance, do any of you know which forms need to be filled out for a team to be created or is it all online now?
Should be all online (probably in the state website). Not sure when registration starts for NY though.
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2020 Sounds MIT and Princeton Champion
2020 (and probably 2021 :( ) Events: PPP/Sounds/Wright/Code/PaRaSiToLoGy

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Re: New York 2019

Post by maxm » May 5th, 2019, 12:59 am

Yeah I've got to be honest, this whole thing sounds like a bad idea that will cause a ton of tension. Honestly I know it sucks you can't all get a chance to compete, and maybe the way people were selected wasn't super fair and that could be addressed. Trust me I've had my fair share of SO drama and it isn't fun. However, just because somebody isnt part of the team doesn't mean they can't help out with studying, testing, etc. and cheer on their teammates. My school always had about 45 people participate throughout the year and only 2 teams compete at regionals, but plenty of non-competing people still stayed after school at practices and came out to regionals and state to cheer us on, which was super cool. Again, it certainly sounds like your team may have some organizational problems as you mentioned, but also realize SO is supposed to be about learning and motivating people to do their best, not just beating other people out in a competition. And especially if the people concerned are freshmen that didn't make the competing teams, they should realize this is typical for plenty of other schools and they'll get their chance in future years.

Just to be clear, I understand feeling upset about how your team is being run and don't want to sound super harsh about you feeling that way. I've been there myself. But imo, it's in everyone's best interest to not stir up any potential conflicts.

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Re: New York 2019

Post by SPP SciO » May 7th, 2019, 10:10 am

thecatgod wrote:We've been thinking about carpooling already and I doubt it would be that hard to organize if we already have a team interested in this. I'm currently contacting the team in place about getting more funding so we don't ruffle any feathers that we don't have to if it can be avoided. I'll tell you all what they say when I get a response and thanks again for all your input. By any chance, do any of you know which forms need to be filled out for a team to be created or is it all online now?
I had a very similar experience as a high school competitor. My division B team (Islip) was created from a select group of kids in a district-wide gifted & talented program. We were already a close-knit group of friends, and we had a lot of success (qualified for States each year). When I was in 10th grade, I was disappointed to find out that our high school's SciO program was more of a "club" than a "team" - there wasn't the same drive to compete, and event preferences were assigned based on seniority rather than try-out results. So, rather than do the mature thing - have a frank conversation with the coaches, listen carefully, respond politely - myself and a few other entitled brats from the g&t program "went rogue" and decided to start our own team in 11th grade. Our high school just so happened to have a new science chairperson, who must have been out of his mind to support us, but he signed all our paperwork and sent off the checks. We fostered this internal rivalry, which felt good at the time, but wasn't productive. We "poached" a few members from the original team, and really charted our own course. Long story short, in 2003, Islip HS had two teams competing in the ELI regionals, but we did not share a homeroom at competition or sit together during the awards. Our new team placed higher, but still fell short of states.

Looking back at it, the whole ordeal was a great learning experience for me personally - it was the first time in my life I experienced any sort of meaningful leadership role, and all the stress that goes along with it. However, I don't think it was great for any of the competitors or coaches involved at the time. We did manage to increase the attention to SciO, and our new coach took a more active role, I think we got a couple of parents hooked too, and Islip HS has definitely had some states-qualifying success afterwards - so maybe there's a positive legacy?

If you're at a small school, or a high school that never qualifies for States - I say, go for it, as respectfully as possible. Start with finding the right advisor. But if you're at a big school (like a specialized HS, that has a well-established track record in sciO) I'd suggest waiting for a fresh start in September, showing up humble at the interest meeting, and working to improve on the system that's in place rather than re-invent the wheel.
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Re: New York 2019

Post by AMAZHANG » June 2nd, 2019, 6:07 pm

if anyone is interested, I made a vlog detailing Ward Melville High School's experience at states

check it out!!!!!

https://youtu.be/FXkCqQnJPmM

like & subscribe also #zhanggang
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2018-2019: Exp. Design, Forensics, Herpetology, Protein Modeling
2019-2020: Exp. Design, Forensics, Codebusters

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