Florida 2019

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Re: Florida 2019

Post by huppada » February 24th, 2019, 11:33 am

Congratulations to everyone who participated at the FAU regional yesterday! And Archimedian, y'all really pulled through, great job! :)
demir wrote:The real shocker was Division B though. American Heritage is real (and really scary)
And considering that they didn't even have a team last year, this is really impressive. :o
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by pepperonipi » February 24th, 2019, 2:28 pm

The FAU Regional was very fun yesterday, and a big thanks is needed for all of the volunteers who came out to support the event. The results were very interesting to see, with Archimedean narrowly taking the 1st place. It'll be interesting to see who comes out on top at states after this narrow victory, for sure.
huppada wrote:
demir wrote:The real shocker was Division B though. American Heritage is real (and really scary)
And considering that they didn't even have a team last year, this is really impressive. :o
It's always cool to see some teams rise up from nothing so quickly like American Heritage did in Division B! These results show they're up for the challenge, and I hope they do great at states with this being their first year.
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by will926ok3645 » February 24th, 2019, 6:21 pm

Congrats to Archimedian on a first place finish at regionals for the second straight year and beating a formidable Boca team. The biggest surprise, for me, at least, may be just how close the overall scores were: Two points between Archimedian 1 and Boca 1, 30 between Cardinal Gibbons and Archimedian 1, and 38 between Archimedian 1 and Boca 2. The FAU regional continues to bring out amazing teams that show just how strong the southeast is in Florida. All four teams did incredibly well and should be proud of their accomplishments.

For Division B, I think everyone is shocked about American Heritage. They came out of nowhere and dominated, placing top-4 in all but two events. They will certainly be a force this season, and a third place finish by their second team could signal future success as well. They should be incredibly proud of their performance.
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by windu34 » February 24th, 2019, 9:02 pm

demir wrote: Archimedean narrowly edging Boca at regional was surprising but not shocking, (in fact, I predicted it earlier) but doing so without any major Boca bomb was
I wouldnt exactly say this is true. 17th in Chem Lab is certainly a bomb considering a 4th place finish at Golden Gate and decent performances at other high profile tournaments.

I think Florida Regionals and States presents a unique challenge for strong, talented teams such as the Boca team this year - all of the invitationals they have competed at had hard tests and national-strength teams, but all of a sudden, they find themselves pitted against weaker teams and (relatively) easy tests. This introduces a lot more less room for error because scores between two teams of a given strength become much closer in event placements compared to if they were to compete under the hard test, strong team environment.
I think the MIT results demonstrate this very well.

I too am very excited to see what happens at the State Tournament this year.
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by jaggie34 » February 24th, 2019, 9:19 pm

windu34 wrote:This introduces a lot more room for error because scores between two teams of a given strength become much closer in event placements compared to if they were to compete under the hard test, strong team environment.
I think the MIT results demonstrate this very well.

I too am very excited to see what happens at the State Tournament this year.
Just to clarify, did you mean less room for error?
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by jaah5211 » February 24th, 2019, 9:55 pm

windu34 wrote:
demir wrote: Archimedean narrowly edging Boca at regional was surprising but not shocking, (in fact, I predicted it earlier) but doing so without any major Boca bomb was
I wouldnt exactly say this is true. 17th in Chem Lab is certainly a bomb considering a 4th place finish at Golden Gate and decent performances at other high profile tournaments.

I think Florida Regionals and States presents a unique challenge for strong, talented teams such as the Boca team this year - all of the invitationals they have competed at had hard tests and national-strength teams, but all of a sudden, they find themselves pitted against weaker teams and (relatively) easy tests. This introduces a lot more room for error because scores between two teams of a given strength become much closer in event placements compared to if they were to compete under the hard test, strong team environment.
I think the MIT results demonstrate this very well.

I too am very excited to see what happens at the State Tournament this year.
windu is right, there were less "competitive" teams. This will give both boca and Archimedean a closer score rather than a gap.
Since there are more strong teams at state, there should be a bigger gap in scores.
windu34 wrote: 17th in Chem Lab is certainly a bomb considering a 4th place finish at Golden Gate and decent performances at other high profile tournaments.

Also, chem lab is usually never ran properly at regionals.The ES seems to underestimate the students' knowledge of chemistry.
Usually the test writers are Chemistry Honors teacher (maybe AP Teachers), thus the tests doesn't heavily incorporate knowledges/comcepts but rather just ask factual or too simple stoichiometry questions.
At our regionals test, there were NO physical properties and only few acids and bases (simple 6th grader could solve it with 1 hour of study).
This is exactly why I want to go to UF's regionals next year. Their chem lab test was excellent. Not exactly MIT or USNCO level of chemistry questions/tasks but somewhat close. UF's Chem Lab exam tested based on knowledge and concepts of Acids&Bases AND Physical Properties. Not just simple stoichiometry and copy pasted lab from a honors curriculum. It required thinking process.
When a competitor sees a question at a competition, they should think "Hmm that is a good question, how should I approach it?"
Not "Wow this test is too easy. I will finish it 15 minutes".
This basically happens at regionals/less established invys.

Thus, I do not trust that score of 17th place at regional. Boca did well at golden gates (4th) and MIT (13th). I received 8th in chem lab at MIT, but received 11th at regionals. (we had to do titration in terms of grams lol, I did it the proper (mL) and got points taken off)
This happens when the tests become too easy and the placements are determined by if you made a simple mistake or not...
(or the ES doesn't know he or she is doing)


Sorry for ranting, but I HONESTLY believe that all regional/state tests should go under editing and review process.
Last year's UCF States chem lab test was horrible as well...

It was just data collection, 6 written (easy questions) and basic concepts. Again, no difficult questions. Also NO Physical Properties!

Yes, chem lab tests are not easy to write. Thus, I usually don't trust chem lab placements unless they are from trustable, well established invitational. (Such as MIT, Golden Gates, UPenn, Solon, ... etc)
I feel like MIT Test is a great example of an excellent chem lab test.
Regional and state tests should follow hers as a model when writing a chem lab.

Again sorry for ranting...

Also, congratulations to Boca, Archimedean, and Cardinal!

Like Everyone, I'm excited for states!

See you there
Last edited by pikachu4919 on February 25th, 2019, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed namedrop
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by pepperonipi » February 24th, 2019, 10:36 pm

windu34 wrote: 17th in Chem Lab is certainly a bomb considering a 4th place finish at Golden Gate and decent performances at other high profile tournaments.
Chem Lab was quite an unfortunate event for Boca Team 1 with a 17th place at regionals, especially after their high scores at various invitationals. A quick look at what some of the top schools placed makes it seem like there could have been some problems with the event: Archimedean got a 4th, Boca Team 1 got 17th, and Boca Team 2 got an 11th, which is crazy considering that these are three of the best four overall teams. It just likely signals that there was something wrong with the event, I believe. It doesn't seem possible that Boca Team 1 could get 4th at GGSO and then 2 weeks later get a 17th at regionals, a seemingly easier tournament with less fierce competition - that makes no sense.
jaah5211 wrote:
Also, chem lab is usually never ran properly at regionals.The ES seems to underestimate the students' knowledge of chemistry.
Usually the test writers are Chemistry Honors teacher (maybe AP Teachers), thus the tests doesn't heavily incorporate knowledges/comcepts but rather just ask factual or too simple stoichiometry questions.
At our regionals test, there were NO physical properties and only few acids and bases (simple 6th grader could solve it with 1 hour of study).
This is exactly why I want to go to UF's regionals next year. Their chem lab test was excellent. Not exactly MIT or USNCO level of chemistry questions/tasks but somewhat close. UF's Chem Lab exam tested based on knowledge and concepts of Acids&Bases AND Physical Properties. Not just simple stoichiometry and copy pasted lab from a honors curriculum. It required thinking process.
When a competitor sees a question at a competition, they should think "Hmm that is a good question, how should I approach it?"
Not "Wow this test is too easy. I will finish it 15 minutes".
This basically happens at regionals/less established invys.

Thus, I do not trust that score of 17th place at regional. Boca did well at golden gates (4th) and MIT (13th). I received 8th in chem lab at MIT, but received 11th at regionals. (we had to do titration in terms of grams lol, I did it the proper (mL) and got points taken off)
This happens when the tests become too easy and the placements are determined by if you made a simple mistake or not...
(or the ES doesn't know he or she is doing)


Sorry for ranting, but I HONESTLY believe that all regional/state tests should go under editing and review process.
Last year's UCF States chem lab test was horrible as well...

It was just data collection, 6 written (easy questions) and basic concepts. Again, no difficult questions. Also NO Physical Properties!

Yes, chem lab tests are not easy to write. Thus, I usually don't trust chem lab placements unless they are from trustable, well established invitational. (Such as MIT, Golden Gates, UPenn, Solon, ... etc)
I feel like MIT Test is a great example of an excellent chem lab test.
Regional and state tests should follow hers as a model when writing a chem lab.
It seems like you have some experience with bad regionals tests lol.

I think that last part about regionals tests undergoing review wouldn't be such a bad idea. I don't think that all regionals tests should undergo review (for example, tests like Code Busters or Fermi aren't likely to be screwed up), but I do think some of the more complex events should be. Given that there are not too many regionals, I don't believe it would take too much time or effort for them to be reviewed by someone a little more knowledgeable and used to what's on the tests and make some changes. Of course, I am in no position to say that, but I think it could definitely happen. Doing this would surely help to take some of the chance out of regionals and give teams a little more faith in the score they got at regionals.

Like you, I wouldn't trust the 17th in Chem Lab, either. The fact that this was regionals and based on the scores obtained by other teams, a 17th just doesn't seem to make sense and I hope it doesn't get to the minds of those in Chem Lab on Team 1.
Last edited by pikachu4919 on February 25th, 2019, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed namedrop in quoted post
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by windu34 » February 25th, 2019, 5:14 am

jaggie34 wrote:
windu34 wrote:This introduces a lot more room for error because scores between two teams of a given strength become much closer in event placements compared to if they were to compete under the hard test, strong team environment.
I think the MIT results demonstrate this very well.

I too am very excited to see what happens at the State Tournament this year.
Just to clarify, did you mean less room for error?
Yes my bad, i edited the post
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by will926ok3645 » February 25th, 2019, 5:43 am

Regionals tests are almost always interesting and do not completely follow the rules- whether it be one question or nearly the entire test. Although review might be a solution to the problem, it would be time consuming to do it for every regional across the country and it might be difficult to find volunteers to read through hundreds of tests. Although it may take longer to yield results, I feel we should emphasize alumni writing tests for regionals and states in order to ensure quality. Current competitors could get practice writing tests through test exchanges (SSSS, CSE, etc.) and there are schools that produce their own test sets at the beginning of the year, since tests are a great way to immerse yourself in the information pertaining to an event. The FAU regional competition had five UFSO board members there, all alumni, and there has yet to be a complaint about those events. The UF Regionals has received an abundance of praise on the forums as well, and those tests were written by current/former competitors. There is an abundance of people who love Science Olympiad and want to continue supporting it while in college. What better way to both encourage both Division D participation and strengthen regional and state test than having alumni write exams. That's what a lot of successful invitationals (e.g. MIT) do.
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Re: Florida 2019

Post by Killboe » February 25th, 2019, 6:18 am

As a competitor for the UF regional, my event tests were all VERY well written. One event in particular that is hard to write (solar system) was amazing! Considering that all the OSS invitational SS tests were very poorly written, I praise UF for writing great Solar tests!

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