2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

[windu34]

It really depends on a lot of factors but the biggest is probably how competitive your state is. Nationals will be much more difficult though in all likelyhood

^This is correct for probably >95% of state tournaments (if not all of them).

I've never been to nationals before. But in general terms, does anybody know how hard is it compared to state competitions? Like if you get first at state for an event how many places do you go down in nationals from past experience?

What state are you from?

[Chiweenie]

New York State.

[jaggie34]

New York State.

New York is definitely one of the states with a difficulty closer to nationals than most but I would still expect it to be more intense.

[builderguy135]

New York State.

just imagine 60 teams but they all won/got second in their state tournaments

about 30 of them aren't considered "good" but still

oh yeah and you also have to beat 90% of them to medal so its pretty hard

[kate!]

I've never been to nationals before. But in general terms, does anybody know how hard is it compared to state competitions? Like if you get first at state for an event how many places do you go down in nationals from past experience?

It depends a lot on the test and how well the event is run. Nationals is generally a lot more competitive than states (even though New York is quite competitive, especially Div C) because every team won or placed 2nd at states. I'd say that the competitiveness at nationals can be compared to the competitiveness between the schools at the Cornell invitational (I'm assuming you went because all 4 New York teams that are going to nats also went there). However, like I said before, your placing in an event is heavily dependent on the test. Some tests at states are run very well and will be run well at nationals. Some aren't run well at states but are run well at nationals. But if you did get 1st at states in such a competitive state, you should be good for nationals unless something goes wrong. It definitely takes extensive amounts of studying plus a good test to actually medal, but I think getting 1st does put you in good shape for nationals (albeit, you won't be able to medal or do as well if you don't study).

[dxu46]

I've never been to nationals before. But in general terms, does anybody know how hard is it compared to state competitions? Like if you get first at state for an event how many places do you go down in nationals from past experience?

Some tests at states are run very well and will be run well at nationals. Some aren't run well at states but are run well at nationals.

Very true - it gets to the point where you can get 1st in rocks and minerals at state and not go to nats, while the 4th place team in rocks and minerals can go to nats and get 8th. (still salty )

[builderguy135]

I've never been to nationals before. But in general terms, does anybody know how hard is it compared to state competitions? Like if you get first at state for an event how many places do you go down in nationals from past experience?

Some tests at states are run very well and will be run well at nationals. Some aren't run well at states but are run well at nationals.

Very true - it gets to the point where you can get 1st in rocks and minerals at state and not go to nats, while the 4th place team in rocks and minerals can go to nats and get 8th. (still salty )

I mean teams can improve significantly...

Our 26th place team at thermo at Rustin last year won nats lol

whatta god

[Rossyspsce]

Some tests at states are run very well and will be run well at nationals. Some aren't run well at states but are run well at nationals.

Very true - it gets to the point where you can get 1st in rocks and minerals at state and not go to nats, while the 4th place team in rocks and minerals can go to nats and get 8th. (still salty )

I mean teams can improve significantly...

Our 26th place team at thermo at Rustin last year won nats lol

whatta god

imo placing at nats is somewhat easier than some invys as multiple states can have amazing tester/builder in a single event, but due to the team format, they never actually make it to nats, sometimes even states. An example of this would be dxu's case, where their team didn't even make nats, while the team that did was still able to come close to medaling. Also lowkey some states, have teams that are good for the state, but fall easily when it comes to nats

[Name]

imo placing at nats is somewhat easier than some invys as multiple states can have amazing tester/builder in a single event, but due to the team format, they never actually make it to nats, sometimes even states. An example of this would be dxu's case, where their team didn't even make nats, while the team that did was still able to come close to medaling. Also lowkey some states, have teams that are good for the state, but fall easily when it comes to nats

At what invites would it be harder to place at then nats? Obviously some very good people don't get to go to nats, but no invite has that many high quality teams as nats. MIT and SOUP are probably the hardest invites this year, MIT was missing teams like Troy, Solon, Mason etc, SOUP was missing teams that went to Cornell, and both were missing lots of teams that just didn't go (Mounds View and 7 Lakes just to name a couple).
Also lots of things- people can't come, conflicts, poor tests, style of tests, really putting in extra effort for nats, having a good/bad day, or even just lucky guessing can change results significantly.

[Unome]

imo placing at nats is somewhat easier than some invys as multiple states can have amazing tester/builder in a single event, but due to the team format, they never actually make it to nats, sometimes even states. An example of this would be dxu's case, where their team didn't even make nats, while the team that did was still able to come close to medaling. Also lowkey some states, have teams that are good for the state, but fall easily when it comes to nats

At what invites would it be harder to place at then nats? Obviously some very good people don't get to go to nats, but no invite has that many high quality teams as nats. MIT and SOUP are probably the hardest invites this year, MIT was missing teams like Troy, Solon, Mason etc, SOUP was missing teams that went to Cornell, and both were missing lots of teams that just didn't go (Mounds View and 7 Lakes just to name a couple).
Also lots of things- people can't come, conflicts, poor tests, style of tests, really putting in extra effort for nats, having a good/bad day, or even just lucky guessing can change results significantly.

It's certainly true in some situations - placing at Michigan state in the flight events in Div C is about as hard as at Nationals, and winning is almost certainly harder. That said, no invitational has been overall near the competitiveness at Nationals - MIT has come the closest, in its hardest years teams would typically have 60-75% of their Nationals score at MIT. No other tournament has come remotely close.