2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by Unome » June 7th, 2019, 1:32 pm

TheCrazyChemist wrote:
waffletree wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote: Or West Coast teams came east for a tournament, like Rustin.
It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
I've been to California a couple of times (once in SF, once in LA), as well as some time in Nevada - the price difference is massive.
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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by Rossyspsce » June 8th, 2019, 11:35 am

Unome wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote:
waffletree wrote: It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
I've been to California a couple of times (once in SF, once in LA), as well as some time in Nevada - the price difference is massive.
Price difference obviously depends on city/state the price jump from GGSO to Cornell price wise was massive as things like food tended to be $3-4 higher on the Cornell trip

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by TheCrazyChemist » June 8th, 2019, 12:54 pm

Rossyspsce wrote:
Unome wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote: Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
I've been to California a couple of times (once in SF, once in LA), as well as some time in Nevada - the price difference is massive.
Price difference obviously depends on city/state the price jump from GGSO to Cornell price wise was massive as things like food tended to be $3-4 higher on the Cornell trip
That's because it's Cornell. Anything with that little C's price quadruples.

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by Galahad » June 8th, 2019, 3:16 pm

TheCrazyChemist wrote:
Rossyspsce wrote:
Unome wrote: I've been to California a couple of times (once in SF, once in LA), as well as some time in Nevada - the price difference is massive.
Price difference obviously depends on city/state the price jump from GGSO to Cornell price wise was massive as things like food tended to be $3-4 higher on the Cornell trip
That's because it's Cornell. Anything with that little C's price quadruples.
that $8 half-sandwich i bought was worth it though
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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by Rossyspsce » June 8th, 2019, 5:14 pm

Galahad wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote:
Rossyspsce wrote:
Price difference obviously depends on city/state the price jump from GGSO to Cornell price wise was massive as things like food tended to be $3-4 higher on the Cornell trip
That's because it's Cornell. Anything with that little C's price quadruples.
that $8 half-sandwich i bought was worth it though
Ayy but we got the saving hope chipotle, still $8.25

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by SOPomo » June 10th, 2019, 1:33 pm

TheCrazyChemist wrote: It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
It's something I've considered doing with my team. We're a middle-third NorCal B team, but I honestly don't know what that means compared to other states so I always toy with the idea of fundraising enough to go to another state that's a middle-third Nats competitor and getting away from all these CA powerhouses for a tournament. Awards can sound pretty monotonous at times when it's "Miller, Kraemer, Churchill, Kennedy, and a B team of those four for 5th place" and so I'd like to see somewhere else. Washington placed 17th this year, Colorado 27th... maybe there's an invite there we could make. The Vegas one is only C this coming year. I don't think it'd be much more than the multi-day charter bus / Six Flags trip we do to SoCal each year.

Anyway, I agree that most schools don't have a powerhouse fundraiser like me working their teams. Would be nice to see more cross country competition. If for no other reason than because SO will never let a 3rd team go from a state so nobody gets to see just how strong a Churchill type team really is except for us Californians.

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by TheCrazyChemist » June 10th, 2019, 1:47 pm

SOPomo wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote: It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
It's something I've considered doing with my team. We're a middle-third NorCal B team, but I honestly don't know what that means compared to other states so I always toy with the idea of fundraising enough to go to another state that's a middle-third Nats competitor and getting away from all these CA powerhouses for a tournament. Awards can sound pretty monotonous at times when it's "Miller, Kraemer, Churchill, Kennedy, and a B team of those four for 5th place" and so I'd like to see somewhere else. Washington placed 17th this year, Colorado 27th... maybe there's an invite there we could make. The Vegas one is only C this coming year. I don't think it'd be much more than the multi-day charter bus / Six Flags trip we do to SoCal each year.

Anyway, I agree that most schools don't have a powerhouse fundraiser like me working their teams. Would be nice to see more cross country competition. If for no other reason than because SO will never let a 3rd team go from a state so nobody gets to see just how strong a Churchill type team really is except for us Californians.
If a Churchill type team is that strong, shouldn't they win their state? Otherwise, you have someone like Kennedy winning. It might be easier to have a team like Daniel Wright or Solon compete in the west and also compete in the east, so that teams can compare. This lessens the cost for more teams, but there's less comparison. I think that the idea of competing with higher level teams on a more regular basis would improve your team greatly. Maybe a good idea would be that you go to more invitationals in NorCal. As for the other competitions out west in Washington or Colorado, I think that California is a really competitive state, and going to those invitationals will definitely make you better, but I'm not sure if it would make your team good enough to beat Kennedy or Churchill.

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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by EastStroudsburg13 » June 10th, 2019, 2:04 pm

TheCrazyChemist wrote:
SOPomo wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote: It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
It's something I've considered doing with my team. We're a middle-third NorCal B team, but I honestly don't know what that means compared to other states so I always toy with the idea of fundraising enough to go to another state that's a middle-third Nats competitor and getting away from all these CA powerhouses for a tournament. Awards can sound pretty monotonous at times when it's "Miller, Kraemer, Churchill, Kennedy, and a B team of those four for 5th place" and so I'd like to see somewhere else. Washington placed 17th this year, Colorado 27th... maybe there's an invite there we could make. The Vegas one is only C this coming year. I don't think it'd be much more than the multi-day charter bus / Six Flags trip we do to SoCal each year.

Anyway, I agree that most schools don't have a powerhouse fundraiser like me working their teams. Would be nice to see more cross country competition. If for no other reason than because SO will never let a 3rd team go from a state so nobody gets to see just how strong a Churchill type team really is except for us Californians.
If a Churchill type team is that strong, shouldn't they win their state? Otherwise, you have someone like Kennedy winning. It might be easier to have a team like Daniel Wright or Solon compete in the west and also compete in the east, so that teams can compare. This lessens the cost for more teams, but there's less comparison. I think that the idea of competing with higher level teams on a more regular basis would improve your team greatly. Maybe a good idea would be that you go to more invitationals in NorCal. As for the other competitions out west in Washington or Colorado, I think that California is a really competitive state, and going to those invitationals will definitely make you better, but I'm not sure if it would make your team good enough to beat Kennedy or Churchill.
I think the question becomes, can you have a successful season without making nationals? For me, the answer is yes, you just have to set different competitive goals for your team. Most frequently, this takes the form of benchmarks at state tournaments, like "be top 10", but I'm intrigued by the idea of a team making one long trip to an invitational and treating that almost like a "nationals" trip, because then you can see how you measure up against teams from other areas. So, for example, a California team could go up to one of Washington's invitationals, or something in the middle of the country, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, or Missouri. I would recommend Texas as well, but most of their major invitationals seem to be very early in the season, which might not be useful for these sorts of purposes.
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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by sciolyperson1 » June 10th, 2019, 2:06 pm

SOPomo wrote:
TheCrazyChemist wrote: It's hard for a lot of teams to come east because of how expensive it is, the 7 hour flight from cali, the time difference, just for an invitational - especially if the team needs to spend a lot of money to go to nationals the same year.
Those difficulties apply to East Coast teams as well. It's still the same amount of time for a flight to California. The time gets shifted back, which can also be difficult, and the expenses apply to East Coast teams as well. (Also, maybe this is just me, but last time I went to California, everything there was more expensive than the East Coast's variant.
It's something I've considered doing with my team. We're a middle-third NorCal B team, but I honestly don't know what that means compared to other states so I always toy with the idea of fundraising enough to go to another state that's a middle-third Nats competitor and getting away from all these CA powerhouses for a tournament. Awards can sound pretty monotonous at times when it's "Miller, Kraemer, Churchill, Kennedy, and a B team of those four for 5th place" and so I'd like to see somewhere else. Washington placed 17th this year, Colorado 27th... maybe there's an invite there we could make. The Vegas one is only C this coming year. I don't think it'd be much more than the multi-day charter bus / Six Flags trip we do to SoCal each year.

Anyway, I agree that most schools don't have a powerhouse fundraiser like me working their teams. Would be nice to see more cross country competition. If for no other reason than because SO will never let a 3rd team go from a state so nobody gets to see just how strong a Churchill type team really is except for us Californians.
Teams that don't fundraise are just as successful as those who do - our team carpools to save money, goes to 4 invies, and still manages to do well at nats, despite having little to no funds from parents (they only pay shirts, and invy team registration)
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Re: 2019 National Tournament: Cornell University

Post by SOPomo » June 10th, 2019, 3:43 pm

sciolyperson1 wrote:
Teams that don't fundraise are just as successful as those who do - our team carpools to save money, goes to 4 invies, and still manages to do well at nats, despite having little to no funds from parents (they only pay shirts, and invy team registration)
My point wasn't about success, but about getting out of our state and competing elsewhere. Can't do that when there's no money.

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