Help Adjusting to Div. B

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Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by Alex-RCHS » June 18th, 2019, 2:32 pm

I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F » June 18th, 2019, 2:52 pm

Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
In my events (mainly test events), I didn't see any large differences between division B and C besides difficulty level and depth.

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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by SOcoachB » June 18th, 2019, 3:07 pm

Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
Easier, sure, but please don't underestimate Division B kids. Tests that are too easy do a disservice to them, and they make it hard to distinguish between teams. Even at our state tournament, the students were coming back from events saying that the tests were easy.

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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by Umaroth » June 18th, 2019, 3:54 pm

SOcoachB wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
Easier, sure, but please don't underestimate Division B kids. Tests that are too easy do a disservice to them, and they make it hard to distinguish between teams. Even at our state tournament, the students were coming back from events saying that the tests were easy.
After competing in Div B for a year, I definitely agree to this. Lots of proctors underestimate the amount of work that many Division B kids put into their events and write a test that is much too beginner for the event. While of course in Division B there are still many kids competing for fun, there are those that are serious about it and want to win, and writing a test that is too easy is definitely disappointing to them after all the hard work they have put in. Hard questions are definitely still appropriate for Div B, but don't forget to throw in some easier ones too. You definitely want a fairly good spread with the highest scores mainly being around 80% and the lowest at maybe 20%. Having to break a lot of ties because everyone missed almost everything or everyone got almost everything right is not ideal, and happens a lot because the proctors underestimate the competitors. What events in specific are you most likely going to supervise?
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by DatSciolyBoi » June 18th, 2019, 7:08 pm

For kids like me (div b going to div c) easy tests don't do anything to help me. I WANT hard tests so I can practice and hopefully make it into a national team. They also tell me what to learn in the future or what to put into the binder for next comp. I feel like, if your competition is a inmvitational, you can get away with a semi-hard test, but at state level, you HAVE to up your game. The state level is the culmination of a season's worth of study for most people, so it should be among the hardest tests.
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by Rossyspsce » June 18th, 2019, 7:14 pm

Umaroth wrote:
SOcoachB wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
Easier, sure, but please don't underestimate Division B kids. Tests that are too easy do a disservice to them, and they make it hard to distinguish between teams. Even at our state tournament, the students were coming back from events saying that the tests were easy.
After competing in Div B for a year, I definitely agree to this. Lots of proctors underestimate the amount of work that many Division B kids put into their events and write a test that is much too beginner for the event. While of course in Division B there are still many kids competing for fun, there are those that are serious about it and want to win, and writing a test that is too easy is definitely disappointing to them after all the hard work they have put in. Hard questions are definitely still appropriate for Div B, but don't forget to throw in some easier ones too. You definitely want a fairly good spread with the highest scores mainly being around 80% and the lowest at maybe 20%. Having to break a lot of ties because everyone missed almost everything or everyone got almost everything right is not ideal, and happens a lot because the proctors underestimate the competitors. What events in specific are you most likely going to supervise?
YES. Tests that are too easy are somewhat a slap in the face for competitors that put in a lot of time studying only to not place well because the test was too easy and could not properly disguise the top and bottom

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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by sciolyperson1 » June 18th, 2019, 8:48 pm

SOcoachB wrote:
Alex-RCHS wrote:I'm looking for some advice about the differences between Division B and C.

In my career as a competitor, I only competed in Div. B for one year and I didn't take it very seriously. As an event supervisor, I have only written for Division C. However, this year I will probably be writing more for Div. B, and I want to make sure I get the tests right.

So, here's my question: I know some basic things about the differences between B and C (B is simpler, slower paced, easier, etc.), but is there anything besides the obvious I should look out for in order to have the tests and events run well?
Easier, sure, but please don't underestimate Division B kids. Tests that are too easy do a disservice to them, and they make it hard to distinguish between teams. Even at our state tournament, the students were coming back from events saying that the tests were easy.

There's a way larger difference in skill between Div B competitors - some go in not knowing the rules, others from top 6 nats teams can easily be compared to other Div C teams in related subjects. If it's regs or a lower skilled invy, write a test meant for a lower skill level, but if an invy has a wide range of teams, write a test meant for the best teams that go.
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by EastStroudsburg13 » June 19th, 2019, 6:17 am

sciolyperson1 wrote: There's a way larger difference in skill between Div B competitors - some go in not knowing the rules, others from top 6 nats teams can easily be compared to other Div C teams in related subjects. If it's regs or a lower skilled invy, write a test meant for a lower skill level, but if an invy has a wide range of teams, write a test meant for the best teams that go.
I would say that a test at an invy with a wide range of teams should have questions with a wide range of difficulties. If a test only has difficult questions, the teams at the lower end aren't getting very much out of the experience.

Alex, I might recommend you reach out to people (such as pikachu) that have written tests for both divisions for input. In my experience, writing for Division B is not that much different from writing for Division C, but it just requires being more careful with question wording (you want to make sure questions are readable by most teams, at least). As far as difficulty goes, you can get away with writing it generally the same as a Div C test, as a lot of events integrate difficulty into the rules already. You may need some additional "gimmie" questions to make sure the bottom end is separated out, and where in Division C you might be inclined to add "just one more section", in B I've found that when you reach that point, your test is probably fine already.
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by Unome » June 19th, 2019, 8:14 am

For events like Machines, which involve topics covered in schools, there is somewhat of a gap. For the vast majority of other events (e.g. almost all of Earth Science) there is little to no difference in appropriate difficulty.
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Re: Help Adjusting to Div. B

Post by PioBoy » June 19th, 2019, 9:12 am

Unome wrote:For events like Machines, which involve topics covered in schools, there is somewhat of a gap. For the vast majority of other events (e.g. almost all of Earth Science) there is little to no difference in appropriate difficulty.
Yeah. Agree with Unome. I was in DP and Thermo(previous event to Machines) and did machines way back when. For earth science, there is almost no difference in difficulty(except math-you might have to be careful there). Thermo and Machines use a ton of knowledge you would learn in upper level highschool. (AP CHEM - Thermo & AP PHYS C mechanics- Machines). It's a little unfortunate because freshman and sophomores are at a huge disadvantage in machines&thermo while upperclassmen learn a decent amount of both in AP Sciences, which are generally upperclassmen classes.

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