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Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 12:19 pm
by GoldenKnight1
Flyingfish wrote: Does anyone know what that means for the number of teams that will be competing in each region between Southeast South and Southeast North, and how many bids each gets for States?
This would be a great time for EastStroudsburg13 to link his map again. That would help determine the number of teams competing. But with the change to having Level 1 and Level 2 teams, I don't think any region in the state can be confident at this time of how many bids they will get. That is because I believe the bids will be based on a proportional amount of the Level 2 teams in the region compared to the total number of Level 2 teams in the state.

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 12:43 pm
by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F
GoldenKnight1 wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 12:19 pm
Flyingfish wrote: Does anyone know what that means for the number of teams that will be competing in each region between Southeast South and Southeast North, and how many bids each gets for States?
This would be a great time for EastStroudsburg13 to link his map again. That would help determine the number of teams competing. But with the change to having Level 1 and Level 2 teams, I don't think any region in the state can be confident at this time of how many bids they will get. That is because I believe the bids will be based on a proportional amount of the Level 2 teams in the region compared to the total number of Level 2 teams in the state.
Searched through EastStroudsburg13's post history and found it.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mi ... 000004&z=6

Major C div teams in Southeast South: Penncrest, Garnet Valley, Bayard Rustin, Conestoga, Strath Haven, etc. Around 20 schools total.

Major C div teams in Southeast North: Lower Merion, Shipley, Harriton, North Penn, etc. Around 15 schools total.

And then, I don't think B division is getting split, but just in case:

Major B div teams in Southeast South: Springton Lake, Garnet Valley, Haverford, Strath Haven, Devon Prep, Tredyffrin Easttown, Fuggett, Stetson, etc. Around 15 schools total.

Major B div teams in Southeast North: Welsh Valley, Bala Cynwyd, etc. Around 5 schools total.

Also, is Southeast Urban still a separate region, or has it been merged into the Southeast North/South?

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 1:32 pm
by Raven
GoldenKnight1 wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 11:35 am
Schedule Updates:
Sat, November 23rd: West Chester East High School, B-div Invitational.

Wed, March 4th: Neumann University, B-div Regional for all teams in Chester, Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties. Also C-div Regional (now called "Southeast South" or "SS") for teams in only Chester and Delaware Counties.

Sat, March 7th: St. Joseph's University, B- and C-div Southeast Urban tournament.

Sat, March 21st: St. Joseph's University, C-div Regional (now called "Southeast North" or "SN") for teams in Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties.
I'm confused, is SE regionals being split into two separate ones for C div? I can't seem to find anything on this on the pascioly.org website or the SE regional website.

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 1:37 pm
by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F
Raven wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 1:32 pm
GoldenKnight1 wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 11:35 am
Schedule Updates:
Sat, November 23rd: West Chester East High School, B-div Invitational.

Wed, March 4th: Neumann University, B-div Regional for all teams in Chester, Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties. Also C-div Regional (now called "Southeast South" or "SS") for teams in only Chester and Delaware Counties.

Sat, March 7th: St. Joseph's University, B- and C-div Southeast Urban tournament.

Sat, March 21st: St. Joseph's University, C-div Regional (now called "Southeast North" or "SN") for teams in Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties.
I'm confused, is SE regionals being split into two separate ones for C div? I can't seem to find anything on this on the pascioly.org website or the SE regional website.
It appears so, although I can't find a website for the SN Regional at St. Joseph's. I believe emails were sent out to PA coaches.

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 1:45 pm
by GoldenKnight1
UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 12:43 pm
Major B div teams in Southeast South: Springton Lake, Garnet Valley, Haverford, Strath Haven, Devon Prep, Tredyffrin Easttown, Fuggett, Stetson, etc. Around 15 schools total.

Major B div teams in Southeast North: Welsh Valley, Bala Cynwyd, etc. Around 5 schools total (Is that right? That seems low.).
GoldenKnight1 wrote: Wed, March 4th: Neumann University, B-div Regional for all teams in Chester, Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties. Also C-div Regional (now called "Southeast South" or "SS") for teams in only Chester and Delaware Counties.
To be clear I did not write that B-div would be split into SS and SN, only C-div. B-division is still staying together.

Southeast Urban is separate competition that does not qualify toward moving to States. But those same teams in Philadelphia County could compete at Neumann on 3/4 if B-div or St. Joe's on 3/21 if C-div.
Raven wrote: I'm confused, is SE regionals being split into two separate ones for C div? I can't seem to find anything on this on the pascioly.org website or the SE regional website.
Yes, C-div in SE is splitting because Neumann can't support that many teams. As someone who has supervised the ~40 teams in 3-sessions the space did it make difficult.

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 1:49 pm
by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F
GoldenKnight1 wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 1:45 pm
UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 12:43 pm
Major B div teams in Southeast South: Springton Lake, Garnet Valley, Haverford, Strath Haven, Devon Prep, Tredyffrin Easttown, Fuggett, Stetson, etc. Around 15 schools total.

Major B div teams in Southeast North: Welsh Valley, Bala Cynwyd, etc. Around 5 schools total (Is that right? That seems low.).
GoldenKnight1 wrote: Wed, March 4th: Neumann University, B-div Regional for all teams in Chester, Delaware, Bucks, Montgomery, and Philadelphia Counties. Also C-div Regional (now called "Southeast South" or "SS") for teams in only Chester and Delaware Counties.
To be clear I did not write that B-div would be split into SS and SN, only C-div. B-division is still staying together.

Southeast Urban is separate competition that does not qualify toward moving to States. But those same teams in Philadelphia County could compete at Neumann on 3/4 if B-div or St. Joe's on 3/21 if C-div.
Raven wrote: I'm confused, is SE regionals being split into two separate ones for C div? I can't seem to find anything on this on the pascioly.org website or the SE regional website.
Yes, C-div in SE is splitting because Neumann can't support that many teams. As someone who has supervised the ~40 teams in 3-sessions the space did it make difficult.
Thank you for the clarifications!

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 5:43 pm
by Unome
Looks like a pretty good split. Three(-ish, do we even count Penncrest anymore?) top teams in SS (the smaller one) and two in SN (the larger one).

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 6:24 pm
by CrayolaCrayon
Unome wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 5:43 pm
Looks like a pretty good split. Three(-ish, do we even count Penncrest anymore?) top teams in SS (the smaller one) and two in SN (the larger one).
I would say Conestoga and Penncrest are still top teams.

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 22nd, 2019, 8:09 pm
by EastStroudsburg13
EastStroudsburg13 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 10:39 am
For Div C at least, you can split apart the regions pretty fairly by county lines. If you put Chester and Delaware Counties in one region, and Montgomery and Philadelphia Counties in the other, Rustin, Penncrest, Stoga, and Garnet Valley are in the former, and Lower Merion, Harriton, North Penn, and Shipley are in the latter. In terms of total teams, the former would have 20 teams, and the latter would have 18. Depending on how it works out, Perkiomen Valley could jump on board with the Montco/Phila region as well. So, I'm not hugely concerned about competitive balance there.

My concern with that split is in Division B. If you draw those geographic lines, the Montco/Phila region has only 7 teams. It would have Bala Cynwyd and Welsh Valley, but it lacks the same depth of schools as Chester/Delaware. If you put Chester in with Montco/Phila, then you get a region of 13 teams, with 10 in Delaware County, which is theoretically fine. But you also end up with a 10-team Delaware County region in Division C, which would be the smallest C regional by far. And trying to add Bucks back into the mix makes essentially no difference, as only 1 Bucks school competed in Division B this year.

Now, it is possible to split a region geographically in one division and not the other. Western Long Island did that in NY, splitting in C but remaining intact in B. If splitting by division is not a route PASO wants to go in, this may be the next best bet. Keep SEPA intact for B division, but split apart SEPA C division into two (roughly) balanced regions, each with 4 bids. It wouldn't have the same cache in SO circles as a giant region of death, but it would at least not change the competitive balance too significantly.

PS: Shameless plug for my map, which was really helpful in figuring this out
I don't think PASO takes advice from an online forum, but it's nice to think we basically came to the same solution. :D

Re: Pennsylvania 2020

Posted: September 23rd, 2019, 12:33 pm
by UTF-8 U+6211 U+662F
EastStroudsburg13 wrote:
September 22nd, 2019, 8:09 pm
EastStroudsburg13 wrote:
July 31st, 2019, 10:39 am
For Div C at least, you can split apart the regions pretty fairly by county lines. If you put Chester and Delaware Counties in one region, and Montgomery and Philadelphia Counties in the other, Rustin, Penncrest, Stoga, and Garnet Valley are in the former, and Lower Merion, Harriton, North Penn, and Shipley are in the latter. In terms of total teams, the former would have 20 teams, and the latter would have 18. Depending on how it works out, Perkiomen Valley could jump on board with the Montco/Phila region as well. So, I'm not hugely concerned about competitive balance there.

My concern with that split is in Division B. If you draw those geographic lines, the Montco/Phila region has only 7 teams. It would have Bala Cynwyd and Welsh Valley, but it lacks the same depth of schools as Chester/Delaware. If you put Chester in with Montco/Phila, then you get a region of 13 teams, with 10 in Delaware County, which is theoretically fine. But you also end up with a 10-team Delaware County region in Division C, which would be the smallest C regional by far. And trying to add Bucks back into the mix makes essentially no difference, as only 1 Bucks school competed in Division B this year.

Now, it is possible to split a region geographically in one division and not the other. Western Long Island did that in NY, splitting in C but remaining intact in B. If splitting by division is not a route PASO wants to go in, this may be the next best bet. Keep SEPA intact for B division, but split apart SEPA C division into two (roughly) balanced regions, each with 4 bids. It wouldn't have the same cache in SO circles as a giant region of death, but it would at least not change the competitive balance too significantly.

PS: Shameless plug for my map, which was really helpful in figuring this out
I don't think PASO takes advice from an online forum, but it's nice to think we basically came to the same solution. :D
I dunno, I sort of like the idea that PASO wanted ideas as to how to proceed, checked for comments by EastStroudsburg13, and then decided.