2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

User avatar
EastStroudsburg13
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 3196
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 7:32 am
Division: Grad
State: MD
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 201 times
Contact:

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by EastStroudsburg13 »

twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Just want to point out that while strong coaches do not necessarily equate to a strong team, the fact that your example references a "water quality coach" indicates that you have a top 1% coaching staff. The spectrum of coaching involvement is wide, and most nationals-quality teams have very involved coaches. Contrast that to the majority of teams that don't make states and have only one coach, two if they're lucky.
East Stroudsburg South Class of 2012, Alumnus of JT Lambert, Drexel University Class of 2017

Helpful Links
Wiki
Wiki Pages that Need Work
FAQ and SciOly FAQ Wiki
Chat (See IRC Wiki for more info)
BBCode Wiki


So long, and thanks for all the Future Dictator titles!
User avatar
EwwPhysics
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 146
Joined: February 22nd, 2020, 12:38 pm
Division: C
State: PA
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
Has thanked: 139 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by EwwPhysics »

EastStroudsburg13 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 10:00 am
twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Just want to point out that while strong coaches do not necessarily equate to a strong team, the fact that your example references a "water quality coach" indicates that you have a top 1% coaching staff. The spectrum of coaching involvement is wide, and most nationals-quality teams have very involved coaches. Contrast that to the majority of teams that don't make states and have only one coach, two if they're lucky.
We have 4 coaches and only 1 is a science teacher... (though one is a Tech Ed teacher which is obviously good for builds). I agree that most of the better teams probably have a lot of really involved coaches, maybe even one for every event, but this isn’t the case for all of them! Coaches are part of the equation, but the biggest factor is definitely student motivation.
Bala Cynwyd MS --> Lower Merion HS '24
Protein Modeling - 1st nats, 1st state, 3rd SOAPS, 9th Solon
Disease Detectives - 4th nats, 3rd state, 8th Duke
Designer Genes - 1st state, 6th SOUP, 4th SOAPS, 8th Duke
Also fossils, widi, circuit
User avatar
EastStroudsburg13
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 3196
Joined: January 17th, 2009, 7:32 am
Division: Grad
State: MD
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 201 times
Contact:

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by EastStroudsburg13 »

EwwPhysics wrote: March 16th, 2020, 11:52 am
EastStroudsburg13 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 10:00 am
twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Just want to point out that while strong coaches do not necessarily equate to a strong team, the fact that your example references a "water quality coach" indicates that you have a top 1% coaching staff. The spectrum of coaching involvement is wide, and most nationals-quality teams have very involved coaches. Contrast that to the majority of teams that don't make states and have only one coach, two if they're lucky.
We have 4 coaches and only 1 is a science teacher... (though one is a Tech Ed teacher which is obviously good for builds). I agree that most of the better teams probably have a lot of really involved coaches, maybe even one for every event, but this isn’t the case for all of them! Coaches are part of the equation, but the biggest factor is definitely student motivation.
I think you misunderstood me. Even 4 coaches is more than average. Student motivation is absolutely a factor, especially if the difference is between "doing well" and "excelling", but I think many of you underestimate how important coaches are. Often they can be the difference between even having a program in the first place or not.

And the whole "science teacher" bit is overblown, one does not need to teach science to be a good Science Olympiad coach. There are many good examples of good coaches who teach other subjects (and not-so-good coaches that teach science).
These users thanked the author EastStroudsburg13 for the post:
EwwPhysics (March 16th, 2020, 2:40 pm)
East Stroudsburg South Class of 2012, Alumnus of JT Lambert, Drexel University Class of 2017

Helpful Links
Wiki
Wiki Pages that Need Work
FAQ and SciOly FAQ Wiki
Chat (See IRC Wiki for more info)
BBCode Wiki


So long, and thanks for all the Future Dictator titles!
User avatar
Name
Member
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: January 21st, 2018, 4:41 pm
Division: C
State: NY
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by Name »

My middle school only has one coach, and our HS only has one real coach (with a couple other teachers willing to stay afterschool with us). The middle school coach kinda guides you through the event, while in HS your kinda on your own to learn your events.

Especially in middle school, I feel like a good coach is especially important to doing well. While motivated kids is obviously also important, they only bring in short term success at best, and a good coach is essential for long term success. I've seen middle school teams do very well for a couple of seasons because of very motivated individuals, and then sorta crash after they leave, while middle schools with good coaches tend to have prolonged success.

A good HS coach is probably slightly less important. Usually HS teams are more captain ran anyways, and its probably up to them moreso then the coach to get the team to do well. As long as the coach has a good system set up, it should be fine, in which case the motivation and dedication of the students are probably a significantly bigger factor in doing well.
These users thanked the author Name for the post:
Unome (March 16th, 2020, 3:46 pm)
South Woods MS, Syosset HS '21
BirdSO TD/ES
Past Events: Microbe, Invasive, Matsci, Fermi, Astro, Code, Fossils
1st place MIT Codebusters 2019-2020
1st place NYS Fermi Questions (2019), Astronomy and Codebusters (2021)
Science Olympiad Founder's Scholarship winner
User avatar
MadCow2357
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 774
Joined: November 19th, 2017, 9:09 am
Division: C
State: RI
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Contact:

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by MadCow2357 »

twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Can't comment on the content of what you're actually saying, but I'm confused, are you a coach or competitor?
MadCow2357's Userpage
2021 Events: Machines, Gravity Vehicle, Digital Structures/Boomilever, and now apparently Circuit Lab
Gallagher MS '19
Barrington HS '23
rip builds
In remembrance of Len Joeris (Balsa Man) and Dr. Gerard Putz - Don't cry because they are gone. Smile because they were here.
twig
Member
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: January 12th, 2020, 8:39 am
Division: B
State: CA
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by twig »

MadCow2357 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm
twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Can't comment on the content of what you're actually saying, but I'm confused, are you a coach or competitor?
I'm both a coach and a competitor, I coach Meteo occasionally and compete for it. Rip I have to coach again next year as a freshman sigh
2021 events: Fossils, DP, Meteo, Orni
2018-2021: Non-proud member of DMSO
2019-2024: co-coach of Meteorology, coach for Crime Busters,co-coach for Fossils,co-coach for R&M, co-coach for DP
A very non-intelligent crackhead during competition
User avatar
SilverBreeze
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 305
Joined: November 28th, 2019, 3:42 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by SilverBreeze »

MadCow2357 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm
twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am In my honest opinion, coaches are not what makes the team strong itself...
It's about the motivation and dedication that the students have to do the events. My team as well doesn't have tryouts and we only get one day a week (Saturday) because most of the coaches are busy with the real world. This year has been one of our strongest years...except for that one year that we got an overall score of 32 at regionals[(don't know if he was lying) For example, our water quality coach is actually an ecologist and he does this for a living. We let anyone in because they want the learning experience even if they don't get an opportunity to compete or if their parents force them in. I joined Scioly because of pure interest, but I didn't know what it would take to win. Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this. "If you really want to make A team or go to states with all of us, you'll need to work hard in order to get there. I can always help you along the way... but you're on your own." I also tell them to stop nagging me as well...
I might even become captain next year because of what I have done to help the team and my bonds with almost everyone except a couple of them, that's nice to know <3

Yes, it's super unfair to the partner who is consistently working really hard on scioly, while the other partner is doing who knows what... Exactly my situation this year. That's why I've was telling my partners to work harder because I'm was sick of carrying them at almost every single comp. Now, I guess I'll have to solo everything, and that's totally fine with me. :)
Can't comment on the content of what you're actually saying, but I'm confused, are you a coach or competitor?
A lot of teams have students that are either currently competing in those events or used to compete in them coach newer/younger students so the team can be strong after they leave. It's a great way to learn and leave a lasting impact on the team when it's voluntary... But when you're threatened with being replaced by the students you're coaching if you choose not to teach them, and they don't really want to learn... well... I will leave it at I am glad my house has not burned down after Crime Busters flame tests. Also no one lost an eye to HCl. Yay!
Troy SciOly 2019 - now
Suzanne SciOly 2016 - 2019
Events this season: Water Quality, Forensics, Ornithology, Dynamic Planet, Sounds of Music, Environmental Chemistry

I support our LGBTQ+ community. I am proud of you.
User avatar
MadCow2357
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 774
Joined: November 19th, 2017, 9:09 am
Division: C
State: RI
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 56 times
Contact:

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by MadCow2357 »

twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 3:03 pm
MadCow2357 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm
twig wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:06 am Now I'm a coach... who knew that I would be one haha. Even as a coach, I would have to say that my students are way too reliant on me, and I keep telling them this.
Can't comment on the content of what you're actually saying, but I'm confused, are you a coach or competitor?
I'm both a coach and a competitor, I coach Meteo occasionally and compete for it. Rip I have to coach again next year as a freshman sigh
Understood lol - the word "coach" threw me off because that usually implies to me an adult who is involved with the administrative duties of a team. How beneficial is student coaching/mentoring to your team, just curious? (I was on a smaller team so we never had this type of system in place rip)
SilverBreeze wrote: March 16th, 2020, 3:27 pm But when you're threatened with being replaced by the students you're coaching if you choose not to teach them, and they don't really want to learn... well... I will leave it at I am glad my house has not burned down after Crime Busters flame tests. Also no one lost an eye to HCl. Yay!
Seems a bit extreme - plus, why would your coaches replace someone who has actually done the event with someone who hasn't even been taught?
MadCow2357's Userpage
2021 Events: Machines, Gravity Vehicle, Digital Structures/Boomilever, and now apparently Circuit Lab
Gallagher MS '19
Barrington HS '23
rip builds
In remembrance of Len Joeris (Balsa Man) and Dr. Gerard Putz - Don't cry because they are gone. Smile because they were here.
User avatar
SilverBreeze
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 305
Joined: November 28th, 2019, 3:42 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by SilverBreeze »

MadCow2357 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 6:25 pm
SilverBreeze wrote: March 16th, 2020, 3:27 pm But when you're threatened with being replaced by the students you're coaching if you choose not to teach them, and they don't really want to learn... well... I will leave it at I am glad my house has not burned down after Crime Busters flame tests. Also no one lost an eye to HCl. Yay!
Seems a bit extreme - plus, why would your coaches replace someone who has actually done the event with someone who hasn't even been taught?
Would you rather have an experienced student who has never done chem events before do it for one year before they graduate or bring in a new team of sixth and seventh graders, if neither of them have done those specific events before?
I was also confused by the logic of encouraging four students to build two builds together for the sake of teamwork if invitational performance determines who makes the Regionals teams... That being said, we had more coach support and involvement than most teams, and we did get a say in which events we were put on.

Sorry if my wording was excessive, I just found middle school frustrating, even though I enjoyed SciOly as a whole.
Troy SciOly 2019 - now
Suzanne SciOly 2016 - 2019
Events this season: Water Quality, Forensics, Ornithology, Dynamic Planet, Sounds of Music, Environmental Chemistry

I support our LGBTQ+ community. I am proud of you.
User avatar
SilverBreeze
Exalted Member
Exalted Member
Posts: 305
Joined: November 28th, 2019, 3:42 pm
Division: C
State: CA
Pronouns: She/Her/Hers
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Re: 2020 National Tournament: North Carolina State University

Post by SilverBreeze »

MadCow2357 wrote: March 16th, 2020, 6:25 pm How beneficial is student coaching/mentoring to your team, just curious? (I was on a smaller team so we never had this type of system in place rip)
Other people can provide more information on this than I can, but from my limited experience, it definitely helps but isn't a huge improvement over the student studying on their own. If they do not want to learn, they will not listen to you, but if they do want to learn, they would have found the information themselves. I think this applies less for builds and labs, where online information on builds is not plentiful(or I just didn't look hard enough), and it can be helpful to have someone show you how to run a lab versus watching a video and trying to figure out an optimal strategy by trial and error. It also helps students that are in-between, where they are open to learning but lack the dedication to research on their own.
It mostly provides motivation, I think, to have someone track your progress and nag you if you're slacking off.
Troy SciOly 2019 - now
Suzanne SciOly 2016 - 2019
Events this season: Water Quality, Forensics, Ornithology, Dynamic Planet, Sounds of Music, Environmental Chemistry

I support our LGBTQ+ community. I am proud of you.
Locked

Return to “2020 Nationals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests