Mousetrap Vehicle C

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby fleet130 » April 4th, 2010, 9:54 pm

You have to be very careful if you use this design. I would think that the piano wire would bend (so not all of the energy would be coming from the mousetraps).
It's a simple matter to insure the piano wire is not bent prior to the start. If it bends after the mousetrap is released, the energy IS coming from the mousetrap. In reality, ALL materials flex to some degree when a force is applied. At what point does this violate the rules? I would suggest, before the mousetrap is released, that you not have tension on the string. An added bonus to this design is that it helps absorb the initial shock when the mousetrap is released.
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby Flavorflav » April 5th, 2010, 9:55 am

winneratlife wrote:
bwy wrote:Does anyone know if swiss-cheesing (drilling holes in the wooden base to make it lighter) the mousetraps is allowed? According to my interpretation, it is, but does anyone know for sure how the judges interpret it?


Nope, we just discussed this on the last page. You need to read before asking.

And no, that is modifying the traps.

Although, if you swiss cheesed the bottom, and not all the way through, I doubt the judges could tell...

Did anyone put in a clarification on this? The rules say that holes may be drilled in the base; they do not say that holes may only be drilled to attach the mousetrap. I know it has no official standing, but the National Event Supervisor told us at a coaches' clinic that there was no limit to the size or number of the holes drilled in the mousetrap base.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby packer-backer91 » April 5th, 2010, 10:44 am

Good point!!!! the way that I always read this it would be illegal but now that I went through the rules exact words I think it is OK to drill holes in the base besides to secure the mouse traps to the frame. These rules have too many opposing clauses. For example "unmodified" is used then it explains that things may be added but not taken away which goes against the word "unmodified". Someone should defiantly get that clarified, I would but I am still waiting on one that I sent almost 4weeks ago now.
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby winneratlife » April 5th, 2010, 10:53 am

packer-backer91 wrote:Good point!!!! the way that I always read this it would be illegal but now that I went through the rules exact words I think it is OK to drill holes in the base besides to secure the mouse traps to the frame. These rules have too many opposing clauses. For example "unmodified" is used then it explains that things may be added but not taken away which goes against the word "unmodified". Someone should defiantly get that clarified, I would but I am still waiting on one that I sent almost 4weeks ago now.


We should also probably ask our state supervisor, that would be a good idea.

On both points.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby penclspinner » April 5th, 2010, 4:39 pm

Flavorflav wrote:Did anyone put in a clarification on this? The rules say that holes may be drilled in the base; they do not say that holes may only be drilled to attach the mousetrap. I know it has no official standing, but the National Event Supervisor told us at a coaches' clinic that there was no limit to the size or number of the holes drilled in the mousetrap base.


Really? When and where was this clinic at? How did you know it was the national event supervisor, I tried looking this information up on the soinc website and couldn't find a listing of National Event Supervisors.

But if the National Event Supervisor tells you that it's okay, then it must be okay right (at the very least at the National level)? Since they'd be the ones scoring the event at Nationals.

*edit meant soinc website not scioly.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby bwy » April 6th, 2010, 9:46 am

It's kind of a weird question, but I've been testing my car so much and I'm wondering if the mousetrap's spring gets looser or less tense because of all the trials, and if it does, how much does it affect the speed? Or is it such a small difference that it doesn't really matter? I don't really want to build a brand new car the day before States like I did for Regionals...

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby winneratlife » April 6th, 2010, 11:27 am

bwy wrote:It's kind of a weird question, but I've been testing my car so much and I'm wondering if the mousetrap's spring gets looser or less tense because of all the trials, and if it does, how much does it affect the speed? Or is it such a small difference that it doesn't really matter? I don't really want to build a brand new car the day before States like I did for Regionals...


I haven't really noticed anything, but I can't say for sure.

How many trials are you trying? I normally do 2, then if I have any particular problem, I try and fix it before testing again. I generally don't "waste" time repeating trials when I already know the outcome.

Although, some strings do get worn down, so you may want to replace that the night before. I know that with my pin-axle design, the reserve is such a sudden pull on the string, it frays it a lot unless I twist a few strings together.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby packer-backer91 » April 6th, 2010, 4:54 pm

winneratlife wrote:
bwy wrote:It's kind of a weird question, but I've been testing my car so much and I'm wondering if the mousetrap's spring gets looser or less tense because of all the trials, and if it does, how much does it affect the speed? Or is it such a small difference that it doesn't really matter? I don't really want to build a brand new car the day before States like I did for Regionals...


I haven't really noticed anything, but I can't say for sure.

How many trials are you trying? I normally do 2, then if I have any particular problem, I try and fix it before testing again. I generally don't "waste" time repeating trials when I already know the outcome.

Although, some strings do get worn down, so you may want to replace that the night before. I know that with my pin-axle design, the reserve is such a sudden pull on the string, it frays it a lot unless I twist a few strings together.



yes the mousetraps do loosen, their strength over time weakens after many trials [thus your times will get slower and slower]. I found on my vehicle that the traps had lost a lot of the pull that they started with anyway [I think almost .1kg of pull]. My vehicle when it started was over 3 seconds faster than the one that I took to Regional’s [didn't replace the traps].

You really never waste time doing runs even if you know what will happen. Its more about consistency to me for example if your vehicle makes it over 99/100 time [7m line] is that one time could happen at State so I test my vehicle many times just to see how much variance there is between runs. Luck can have a large part of this event but I would rather have consistent good scores then have a few good ones and the rest bad. I STRONGLY disagree on your stance of changing anything on your vehicle the day before [can have potential to change your performance], I use 100+ pound test string and the chance for that stuff to get worn out is extremely low.
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby bwy » April 6th, 2010, 5:14 pm

packer-backer91 wrote:My vehicle when it started was over 3 seconds faster than the one that I took to Regional’s [didn't replace the traps]

Wow so you just went in to regionals knowing it could have been 3 seconds faster? It's a good thing you actually kept track of your times the whole way through. I'm debating whether or not 6 points at states is worth making a new vehicle...
packer-backer91 wrote:I STRONGLY disagree on your stance of changing anything on your vehicle the day before [can have potential to change your performance]

That is a good point. I had to do a lot of testing again the day I made the new car just to get the distance right and I never really got it as good as I wanted... I was 27 cm off at regionals.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby winneratlife » April 6th, 2010, 5:34 pm

bwy wrote:
packer-backer91 wrote:My vehicle when it started was over 3 seconds faster than the one that I took to Regional’s [didn't replace the traps]

Wow so you just went in to regionals knowing it could have been 3 seconds faster? It's a good thing you actually kept track of your times the whole way through. I'm debating whether or not 6 points at states is worth making a new vehicle...
packer-backer91 wrote:I STRONGLY disagree on your stance of changing anything on your vehicle the day before [can have potential to change your performance]

That is a good point. I had to do a lot of testing again the day I made the new car just to get the distance right and I never really got it as good as I wanted... I was 27 cm off at regionals.


:lol:

I test the morning of... On the same floor... To test the floor, due to the fact that I've found that my testing place isn't very reliable.

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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby packer-backer91 » April 6th, 2010, 5:54 pm

bwy wrote:
packer-backer91 wrote:My vehicle when it started was over 3 seconds faster than the one that I took to Regional’s [didn't replace the traps]

Wow so you just went in to regionals knowing it could have been 3 seconds faster? It's a good thing you actually kept track of your times the whole way through. I'm debating whether or not 6 points at states is worth making a new vehicle...
packer-backer91 wrote:I STRONGLY disagree on your stance of changing anything on your vehicle the day before [can have potential to change your performance]

That is a good point. I had to do a lot of testing again the day I made the new car just to get the distance right and I never really got it as good as I wanted... I was 27 cm off at regionals.



this may sound bad but, yes I knew that if new mousetraps were added we would have done even better. It came down to the decision to save "the good stuff" [our new mouse traps for only state]. This sounds like overconfidence but I knew that the performance of our vehicle will out score any vehicle in my region.

Now as far as the 6 points to build a new vehicle to me I would just look for areas where I could improve the existing model without having to make a new one. I really don’t know how completive your state is in that event what one person thinks is hard may be easy to others. Many people think their state is very completive but how do we know this really [it’s the best team that makes it to Nationals and no team gets 1st in all 23 events]. For example my Regional design was only 1/10 worse than the 1St team from New York [state scoring]. It was my opinion that this vehicle if it would have went to state would be 20ish [give or take some]. This may be my opinion of my state being very completive I can remember that my 197/200 was only good enough for 5th at State in Electric Vehicle. Being so close to my State comp I don’t even want to put the time range that I am aiming for, I got the opportunity to observe some of the other best vehicles in my State which made my completely change expectations. I would certainly try to get every point off of your score as possible unless you are 100% sure all the teams are not as good as your vehicle
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby packer-backer91 » April 6th, 2010, 6:10 pm

winneratlife wrote:
:lol:

I test the morning of... On the same floor... To test the floor, due to the fact that I've found that my testing place isn't very reliable.



sorry for the double post but if that was a joke its funny. But seriously you can’t do that at State the building is locked [I went there at 6:45am last year to get a get our Electric Vehicle locked into the slope of the floor. The slope of the floor is deferent EVERYWHERE. Nowhere has a perfect gym floor. I wanted to get two test runs on the floor so that I can adjust the vehicle to get the times to what I wanted them to be [didn't happen and we got all 3 points off on our time score]. I would like to see the day before a compaction be open for practice runs for build it events on the surface that they will be tested on. This year that is big slopes on floor with so light and weak driven vehicles can lead to inaccurate vehicles!
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby franklinknights » April 6th, 2010, 6:27 pm

I test the morning of... On the same floor... To test the floor, due to the fact that I've found that my testing place isn't very reliable.[/quote]


sorry for the double post but if that was a joke its funny. But seriously you can’t do that at State the building is locked [I went there at 6:45am last year to get a get our Electric Vehicle locked into the slope of the floor. The slope of the floor is deferent EVERYWHERE. Nowhere has a perfect gym floor. I wanted to get two test runs on the floor so that I can adjust the vehicle to get the times to what I wanted them to be [didn't happen and we got all 3 points off on our time score]. I would like to see the day before a compaction be open for practice runs for build it events on the surface that they will be tested on. This year that is big slopes on floor with so light and weak driven vehicles can lead to inaccurate vehicles![/quote]

to help this out, Illinois has decided to let you use the building the day before !

and for genereal info, mousetrap springs doloose efficency after 25 trials or so (i know cuz i tested)
so i suggest you use industrial velcro ur mose traps down so they can be replaceable
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby packer-backer91 » April 6th, 2010, 8:28 pm

franklinknights wrote:
to help this out, Illinois has decided to let you use the building the day before !

and for genereal info, mousetrap springs doloose efficency after 25 trials or so (i know cuz i tested)
so i suggest you use industrial velcro ur mose traps down so they can be replaceable


that 25 fact is mouse trap dependent. There are things that make each mouse trap unique and thus will loose their pull at different rates. You can’t put a number on the amount of trials that it takes for the spring to loose power in fact they loose some power the moment you use the spring [may not be measurable but happens]. Too many factors can lead a trap to last longer or shorter than other traps to be able to put a number on trials.
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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Postby winneratlife » April 7th, 2010, 9:35 am

packer-backer91 wrote:
winneratlife wrote:
:lol:

I test the morning of... On the same floor... To test the floor, due to the fact that I've found that my testing place isn't very reliable.



sorry for the double post but if that was a joke its funny. But seriously you can’t do that at State the building is locked [I went there at 6:45am last year to get a get our Electric Vehicle locked into the slope of the floor. The slope of the floor is deferent EVERYWHERE. Nowhere has a perfect gym floor. I wanted to get two test runs on the floor so that I can adjust the vehicle to get the times to what I wanted them to be [didn't happen and we got all 3 points off on our time score]. I would like to see the day before a compaction be open for practice runs for build it events on the surface that they will be tested on. This year that is big slopes on floor with so light and weak driven vehicles can lead to inaccurate vehicles!


Really? Me and like 5 other teams did it at regionals. We don't go early, just, during impound, ya know?


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