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Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 14th, 2010, 3:02 pm
by fleet130
The GENERAL RULES, which apply to all events say:
2. Unless otherwise stated, it is generally understood that if notes, resources, calculators, actions etc., are not excluded, then they are permitted unless they violate the spirit of the problem.
This means that you can do anything UNLESS it:
  • 1. is specifically prohibited by the rules
    2. violates the spirit of the competition
    3. presents a safety hazard
    4. provides an unfair advantage.
Tournament organizers agree to follow the rules at published and clarified by the national organization. Unfortunately there are times when they don't. In some cases, the tournament doesn't have the necessary facilities/resources needed to follow the rules, in others they misinterpret what the rules say, and sometimes they disregard the rules because they disagree with what they say.

Interpreting rules is colored by an individuals knowledge and past experiences. It's common for rule-writers to understate what they want simply because they know what they mean to say. Others who have not had the same conversations/experiences can easily arrive at a completely different interpretation than what was intended.

Many problems are a result of language. Words have varied and often abstract meanings that can lead to misunderstanding. Often the insertion (or omission) of a comma can drastically change the meaning of a sentence.

I could go on to give several other examples of how the rules are interpreted differently, but the point is: The only sure way to know how the rules will be applied is to ask the person who will be interpreting them for YOUR competition.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 18th, 2010, 8:59 am
by wexs883198215
I don't do building events in general, so I figured I'd get the expertise of some of the people on this board.

What happens if a team forgets to go to impound for Mousetrap Vehicle but still has a device? Do you get Tier 2-ed? Tier 3-ed? No-showed? Disqualified?

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 18th, 2010, 10:49 am
by fleet130
What happens if a team forgets to go to impound for Mousetrap Vehicle but still has a device? Do you get Tier 2-ed? Tier 3-ed? No-showed? Disqualified?
See the last paragraph of my post above.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 18th, 2010, 6:39 pm
by packer-backer91
What happens if a team forgets to go to impound for Mousetrap Vehicle but still has a device? Do you get Tier 2-ed? Tier 3-ed? No-showed? Disqualified?
See the last paragraph of my post above.

I agree it does vary by state, in Michigan [State] if you don’t show up to impound or run the event it’s a no show. A few years ago a team got a now show in scrambler because they stopped to give someone first aid, even with that as their reason they didn't let they run the event.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 19th, 2010, 5:19 am
by wexs883198215
Well it's a NS if they don't run it, but what if they allowed us to run after missing impound?

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 19th, 2010, 6:12 am
by rockhound
It ultimately would probably be up to the supervisor but I think they should let you compete but rank you behind all the teams that did impound properly.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 19th, 2010, 6:44 pm
by packer-backer91
It ultimately would probably be up to the supervisor but I think they should let you compete but rank you behind all the teams that did impound properly.

true, I was just saying that in Michigan from past incidents that happen I think that in most events if you don’t impound or don’t show up to the event is the same [no show]. This is also very dependent on judge too I do know that one event took more time than it was supposed too and thus many people where either almost late or late to their next event, in that case they have to grant you the right to run your event [as long as it was impounded]. What you said for a tier thing would be nice to see but the rules give what the tiers are and it would not be right for a supervisor to come up with his/her own new rules either.

I have a interesting new problem with Vehicle I have now, I jokingly call it the man trap but that title may be well earned now. I got some new and better mouse traps that actually have enough pull for them to slow down the vehicle's time! My guess was that they are putting enough stress on the axel to bend it slightly and causing more friction than before in hole. Has anyone encounter a like problem? I have a good idea of how I may fix it but does anyone else have an idea to help get my speed up to the levels that it should be at. Note: the current axel is 3/8" Steel rod had tried 3/8 Al but that bent way to easy to be used.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 21st, 2010, 10:07 am
by hlall
I don't do building events in general, so I figured I'd get the expertise of some of the people on this board.

What happens if a team forgets to go to impound for Mousetrap Vehicle but still has a device? Do you get Tier 2-ed? Tier 3-ed? No-showed? Disqualified?
The rules explicitly state that this would be a competition violation (Tier 3).

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 25th, 2010, 10:04 am
by Balsa Man
State tournament yesterday. Ours ran 13 sec, with distance about 1 ft off (didn't get the actual # - watching from about 10 ft away; good enough to win. Room to improve in two areas; our kids went back to our early-season test mule chassis; significantly heavier (in the side rails carrying the wheel bearings), but running straighter (about 270gr vs 180gr); also, I was surprised (after preaching "know the rules inside out and backwards") to find out they didn't realize that the distance score was from center of the S/F line to the vehicle pointer- they thought it was simply distance from the line to the pointer, wherever along the line the vehicle stopped. They were less than 2cm from the line- just off to one side about a foot. All they would have had to do was position the vehicle at start to bring it back to center. It never occurred to me that they didn't understand that;my bad, I guess.

Two trap design - outward-bound one pretty standard; the reverse one uses a brass tube piece over the axle, with the string wrapped around it; the axle free-floats inside it. There is a pin in the axle, and the end of the tube on the pin side has two angled cuts in it. Use a little piece of masking tape to hold the tube in position away from/clearing the pin. The trap arm comes down about 2" past where the pin is, so when it goes, it pulls the tube over, engaging the pin, then unwinding the string.

Re: Mousetrap Vehicle C

Posted: April 25th, 2010, 2:30 pm
by wexs883198215
I don't do building events in general, so I figured I'd get the expertise of some of the people on this board.

What happens if a team forgets to go to impound for Mousetrap Vehicle but still has a device? Do you get Tier 2-ed? Tier 3-ed? No-showed? Disqualified?
The rules explicitly state that this would be a competition violation (Tier 3).
Yea so we got DQed initially, but won a protest to get Tier 3-ed instead. 11 point swing ended up not mattering though.